The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
nick.maecenas, NathanJA, Antonym, Don M, Journeyman
5,894 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 128 guests, and 22 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,254
Posts415,524
Members5,894
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 108
R
Member
OP Offline
Member
R
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 108
Dear Forum Members,

Do members of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic & Ukrainian Orthodox Churches do prostrations during the Divine Liturgy, or is this purely a Russian practice? (I am referring to Liturgies outside of Great Lent).

If they do, are they done at the same time as the Russians, or different?
Thank You!

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 157
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 157
Well usually one does not prostrate outside of lent, or are you referring to weekday services?

The rule of thumb is that there are no prostrations ever on Sunday and only on Kneeling Vespers of Pentecost does one kneel (technically Sunday evening, not day).

That is what I was taught and observed and did, and still do.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,587
Likes: 1
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,587
Likes: 1
Aren't the exceptions to the rule - the 3rd Sunday of the Great Fast as well as the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross ?

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 2
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 2
I can't speak in general regarding Ukrainian Orthodox parish practice,when I was the guest of a local Ukrainian Orthodox priest,I observed both priest and congregation kneel after the liturgy to the singing of a hymn.I believe it was "Bozhe Velikyy".The only issue I had was that one shouldn't kneel after recieving Holy Communion at least until Vespers later in the day.
Regarding the Cross,I would say we do prostrations before the Cross always,Sunday or not,EXCEPT,as I stated above, after Holy Communion is recieved.

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 396
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 396
Ruthenians do prostrations during Divine Liturgy on the Feast of the Exaltation of the Cross.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 2
In a number of Russian or Russian-derived parishes, a custom of prostrating at the Epiclesis has developed over a number of decades (maybe even centuries?), in imitation of the prostration performed by the celebrants after the invocation of the Holy Spirit. However, it has to be said that this is not in the rubrics for the laity, and is not in keeping with the spirit of honoring Sunday as the Day of Resurrection. Nonetheless, like kneeling in some Greek Catholic parishes, it's almost impossible to suppress--popular piety cares nothing for rubrical niceties.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 157
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 157
True. I forgot those 2 Sundays for the Exaltation of the Cross during lent and in September.

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 2
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 530
Likes: 2
Dear Subdeacon,
You mean the Sunday of the Cross in Lent and the Exaltation of the Cross which may fall on a Sunday(when it does,according to the Russian rubrics)nothing of the Resurrection is chanted during Vespers,Matins, and Liturgy.
Then there is the lesser Feast of the Cross,Aug 1st,which begins the Dormition Fast.Often,in parishes,that is served only if it falls on Sunday.

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5
I have a Ukrainian Catholic hand missal from the early part of the 20th century and it says the priests do prostrations after the "this is my body" and after "this is my blood". I wonder if this was an attempt to adapt the russian practice to the latin theology or an organic change in the Ukrainian church

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 631
Likes: 10
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 631
Likes: 10
It is a tossup. There are prostrations that the Greeks and the Romanians do (especially after the Epiklesis), but I cannot recall off hand if they do the same after the "Words of Institution".

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,317
Likes: 22
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,317
Likes: 22
St John Chrysostom, although I forget the exact reference from his writings, does say that after the Words of Institution, the priest and everyone are to make a prostration.

In my Church, after the Words "This is my Body..." one makes the Sign of the Cross with a prostration (not to the floor) and again after the "This is my Blood...".

Also after the "Thine from Thine own . . ." But there are priests who make a full prostration after the Epiclesis, i.e. the final "Amen."

It would be nice for our Church to have ONE set of liturgical rules in place for all of this. As it stands we have two Ukrainian language versions of the Divine Liturgy and our Eparchs in Ukraine in the last little while approved a third.

That's fine - but can we please have and follow just ONE?! They seemed to be mostly focused on delineating the titles and roles of various categories of bishops . . .

There is a war going on there with an invading Russian Federation army hell-bent on destroying Ukraine, Ukrainian culture, the Ukrainian Churches - and all with the overt blessing of the Russian Orthodox patriarch.

There are more current things for our eparchs to busy themselves with - at least it would appear.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 631
Likes: 10
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 631
Likes: 10
Dr Roman the Akathistnik, we could follow the Old Rite Russian rules, which is "Take, eat..." bow to the waist, "Drink ye all..." bow to waist, "Thine own of Thine own..." bow to waist, "We hymn Thee..." full prostration (there is a full prostration after Dostojno jest' or the Zadostojnik, as well as two bows and a prostration at the Great Entrance). This way we do everything everyone is already doing smile

1 member likes this: MalpanaGiwargis
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,317
Likes: 22
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,317
Likes: 22
I like your solution!! You should be, at the very least, the ecumenical advisor to Rome!!!

Cheers, Alex

Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 6
S
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Apr 2022
Posts: 6
I find it difficult to do prostrations with ores in the way.


Moderated by  Administrator, Father Anthony 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2023 (Forum 1998-2023). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5