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Dear Friends,

I have been in conversation with a nice, polite Bishop calling himself Hadrian Mar Elijah. Recently, his community came into union with the "real" Syrian Orthodox Malankara Church. He was to step down (by his own request) and be received as a Chorepiscopos (per the canons of Nicea). However, now I see him referenced as "Bishop of Cosmopolis" (a suburb in Washington State). Is his group now part of the canonical Syrian Orthodox Church? I only ask becuase I have been in contact with him, but with people on the net, you never quite know. Please note that I have no desire to harass him, question him too much, etc.; I just want to know if I am in Washington State ever if his parishes are part of the "canonical" church, as I would like to visit them.

he also claims his apostolic succession from the Coptic Church of Sudan, which had an exiled bishop in the US. Anyone know about this group?

Thanks,

anastasios

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Dear Anastasios,

As far as I can tell, he's not. If such a "reunion" happened, we would've heard something about it here. I know that a couple of Americans were ordained out West, I read that in a newspaper once. Furthermore, one of the deacons at our church was a nice American gentleman. He died some years back. But because these things are rare, they get publicised. This one I've never heard of...although he might be the same man who has a website which has pictures of him with bishops and priests of the "real" Church...all of these bishops and priests of the "real" Church I know of and the bishops I've met, but the photos with him in them look like they could be a cut and paste job.

P.S. Did you ever get my reply to your e-mail? Just want to make sure it went through...

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Mor Ephrem,

Yes thank you, I got your reply. I will keep checking out Bp Hadrian to see what happens.

In Christ,

anastasios

PS He is not Mar Enoch, who is the guy with pictures of him with many Orthodox metropolitans in India. He actually did go there, but his attempts to "buy" them off were rebuffed (so says anonymous Bishop with whom I was in conversation about this matter.)

[ 03-04-2002: Message edited by: anastasios ]

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I have posted this to a Coptic forum that I belong too. Hopefully, I will get a response soon and will post it here.

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Dear Anastasios,

Cool. Let me know more about this Mar Elijah guy when you know more...when he went to India, what was it that caused the bishops there to tell him to get lost (if that's not putting it too harsh), etc., here or by private email, whichever you deem more appropriate.

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Quote
Originally posted by Mor Ephrem:
Dear Anastasios,

Cool. Let me know more about this Mar Elijah guy when you know more...when he went to India, what was it that caused the bishops there to tell him to get lost (if that's not putting it too harsh), etc., here or by private email, whichever you deem more appropriate.

Mor Ephrem,

The bishops told Mor Enoch to get lost. As far as I can tell, Mar Elijah is on more cordial terms, and by his claim, is entering into union with them.

In Christ,

anastasios

I will send you a private email about Mor Enoch. As I have no substantiated claims, I wish not to slander.

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Hmmm...I'd be more than a little suspicious of a 25 year old man claiming to be a bishop.

Edward, deacon and sinner

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Fr Deacon Ed:

I was too, and I asked him about that; he told me that that was why when he "gave" his diocese over to the Syrian Malankara Orthodox Church, that he requested NOT to be received as a bishop. Now I see he is still a bishop, so I am wondering if he backed out, or what.

He told me that he did NOT want to be a bishop, but that his consecrator, bishop Faruk something, insisted. Could be a lie, but there's not way to find out.

Coptic Bishop David is I believe 28 years old, by the way.

In Christ,

anastasios

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Can anyone confirm "Hadrian Mâr Élijah Bar Israël" was in fact or was consecrated as bishop on 21 December 1995, by Grace Abune Ystinos Menelik Abraham of the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and as such possess the apostolic lineage of Saint Mark the Apostle. ?

Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
www.ethiopianorthodox.org

His claims of being a Bishop, seems to be lacking, any credentials, there seems to be no supporting evidence, no news stories, no photo's.

His website's; 7 of at this count, seems to be missing any, contact information, and also lacking any, direct contact details, postal address, or telephone numbers.

However one can make a PayPal payment donation !


I have written to Grace Abune Ystinos Menelik Abraham, requesting details on his "consecrated as bishop on 21 December 1995" though to this date, I have had no reply at this time.

God Bless

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graham,

Quote
The history of a church is always the history of the bishop’s [sic] who created it. This story begins with the His Excellency Hadrian Mar Elijah Bar Israel, the Nazarani Metropolitan.

from A Short Concise History of the Nazari Church [bishop.nazarani.org]

Let's start there. 'Bishops' or Bishops don't create churches; those who claim they've done so are suspect at best.

Then too, there is the Orthodox viewpoint - the so-called Cyprianic theory of apostolic succession

Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
The Cyprianic theory effectively holds that a valid episcopal ordination is affected by schismatic or heretical acts and by excommunication taken in response thereto or for any other reason. Accordingly, a validly ordained priest once validly ordained to the episcopate retains his capacity to exercise that order only so long as he continues in communion with the jurisdiction under the authority of which he was ordained to the episcopate (or such other jurisdiction into which he may have subsequently been accepted) and is exercising the office or jurisdiction by which he has the right to perform those acts. There is no distinction made as to licitness.
(emphasis added)

Ergo, the bishop lacks capacity to exercise that order. (Assuming he was a validly ordained priest to begin with and assuming that his episcopal ordination was valid - for neither of which events is any definitive proof readily available.)

By the way, the link with which I opened this post provides an intriguing roster of the gentleman's journey through myriad canonical jurisdictions in his quest to have his own ecclesia - talk about Church shopping!

I'd not spend any great amount of time worrying oneself about his validity. I don't think much has changed since Dustin and Phil initially discussed his status a decade and a half ago.

Many years,

Neil

Last edited by Irish Melkite; 01/28/15 01:58 AM. Reason: add parenthetical "(Assuming ...)"

"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/198308230/jorge-silva

Here the whole story. He was ordained priest by an independent bishop lineage at an episcopal church. Stephanos. He stated all this on his website later on.

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Well heres the full story. He admitted on his website he was of independent origins. Rest in peace about it

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/198308230/jorge-silva

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Christ is in our midst!!

syriangal,

Welcome to the forum.

Bob
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