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We are here to pass the faith, not fill pews but......
A question that haunts me is.....just what is this "faith" that we are to keep and pass, that we are so fearful of altering? Is it a collection of rules, a collection of definitions whose set of words are so precise and polished? Or rather, is our faith far more? There is no question that the faith is found in the Gospels. Likewise, it's groundwork is the Old Testament. Assuredly, it is beautifully outlined in the Creed. Of course, the Church has reflected on it and honed it for centuries, as institutions do.......no question.

But what of its' abstract notions? What about the faith as a home for human dignity, for compassion, forgiveness, understanding? Have we forgottened that these notions, and more like them, lie at the heart of the faith? Or, have we become the new Pharisees with our faith? Have we become so occupied with the collection of rules and definitions that we now believe they have become more important that the abstract ones? Are we ready to condemn healing because it was done on the Sabbath....or ( gasp!) to someone who is an outcast, or marginalized?

As to" hostile regimes" - these easy to spot. It is easy to identify one. It is could be a regime that is atheistic, as in Stalinist Russia. It could be a regime that is theocratically non- Christian, legally recognizing only its own religion and persecuting others, we have those too.

What is not easy to spot are regimes (or political movements) that pretend "the Judaic/Christian" ideals but stand for principles that are incompatible with Gospel teachings. They are sneakier than the hostile states because they enlist people wanting to "keep and pass the faith". They dupe good people into believing that their designs are in line with that " faith", while all along they stand for power, greed, hate and revenge......the exact opposite of the "faith." At least we know where we are with hostile states and, yes, there is a chance that these conditions may purify. But with the sneaky regimes, there is a chance that the real faith becomes perverted. I am grateful that some Bishops feel the need to warn us and expose the sneaky ones.

Friends, while we debate whether we should cross ourselves from left to right- or right to left, or stand versus kneel, there are a whole lot of people out there needing their neighbors' love. This is a a time when so many people feel alienated and lost. This is a a time when so many need hope....... Are we Christians going to share the faith, or keep and pass it to only those we think deserve it?

Christ is in our midst!!

Hutsul,

The Faith that we have and receive is a way of life formed around a relationship with a Divine Person, Jesus Christ. It involves a finished Deposit of Faith that outlines how we are to live and believe in this life with a constant focus on a post-death life with Christ. It is directly opposed to the life of the world around us in what it demands of the believer. The Lord Himself tells us that it has hated Him and will hate us, too, but that we should be strong and resolved to be different fromthe world around us.

The only fear here is that we become arrogant enough to think we have the right, the need, or the duty to modify or change this sacred Deposit to meet the demands of the current culture. People are the same as they have been for millenia. We are fallen; we have what has been termed "the seed of corruption" in each of us, causing us to fall short time and again from the demands of beling a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

But we have within the Church the means to be reconciled and healed, time and again, through the Sacrament of Confession, a/k/a the Mystery of Confession, a/k/a the Scarment of Reconciliation. In whatever term it is called, we have the Divine means of recovering our relationship with the Lord lost time and again to sin.

What is sin? Sin is an acronym: "separation/selfishness/self-centeredness IS normal/necessary/needed"--the lie that the Prince of this world tries to convince us is true.

We also have the necessary tools in the Church, though they have been pushed to the background in much of today's practice. I mean the ascetic practices lived by the saints and our ancestors over the course of the last two millenia. The Lord told us inthe Beatitudes that "the pure in heart shall see God." That's what we are striving for.

Pope Francis seemed to teach that all are welcome. And that is true. However, what he failed to mention was that we are all called in our faith walk within the Faith to a relationship with Chris by repentance. It is a demand of all of us. We cannot live lives that reflect deviations from the strict demands of holy living that include the commandments and the moral law.

The crux of the divisions over His Holiness' teachings caused by Amoris Laetitia and Fiducia Supplicans seem to me to come from the idea that the Deposit of Faith can "evolve" from what it was to something akin to what the secular culture is demanding and living. Traditional teaching by the Church says that we can "develop" our understanding of the Deposit--that is, refine our understanding by study and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but we cannot change it into something totally different from what ithas always been. This is howwe will be judged at our individual judgment and at the Last Judgment. Did I keep the Faith as I have been taught, as far as I, an imperfect human being can, or did I not? Will the Lord say "well done good and faithful servant" or "I don't know you"?

Theophan quote:
Pope Francis seemed to teach that all are welcome. And that is true. However, what he failed to mention was that we are all called in our faith walk within the Faith to a relationship with Chris by repentance. It is a demand of all of us. We cannot live lives that reflect deviations from the strict demands of holy living that include the commandments and the moral law.

The crux of the divisions over His Holiness' teachings caused by Amoris Laetitia and Fiducia Supplicans seem to me to come from the idea that the Deposit of Faith can "evolve" from what it was to something akin to what the secular culture is demanding and living. Traditional teaching by the Church says that we can "develop" our understanding of the Deposit--that is, refine our understanding by study and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but we cannot change it into something totally different from what ithas always been. This is howwe will be judged at our individual judgment and at the Last Judgment. Did I keep the Faith as I have been taught, as far as I, an imperfect human being can, or did I not? Will the Lord say "well done good and faithful servant" or "I don't know you"?

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He is and always will be.

Theophan, I have no disagreement with any of your thoughts. Although I try to present a different take on things most of the time, I remain a person who still believes in traditional teachings and values, and I trust that you are aware of that. I do not support same sex relationships. That said, I rehashed this old issue about Pope Francis because I was, and still am, disappointed in the Forum's lack of respect toward our former Pope.

What I have learned from this 'rehashing' is that the same sex issue is at the heart of this disrespect. One very sensitive issue, not a teaching. One big, emotionally charged issue has caused such animosity.

I really want to be done with this topic, as I feel I am kicking a dead horse, but I am left with 3 nagging questions:

Do the posters on this subject think that all the negative aspects/ perceptions of Supplicans were not considered before its' issue? Do the posters on this subject think that the Pope and the Church Dicastery got up one fine morning and issued Supplicans on a whim without research, thought, or prayer? And finally.............and this one really intrigues me...............Do the posters- here on this subject- believe that they posess a more profound understanding of "The Deposit of Faith" than the Pope of Rome and his Dicastery?

Christ is in our midst!!

Hutsul,

I don't think there is any disrespect meant here; nor do I think Fiducia Supplicans was issued without thought. I do think it was deliberate, but is the fruit of a long developing shift in philosophy and theology that transcends the 20th century.

In the midst of one of the two controvesial documents is the idea that our understanding of these issues has "evolved" from what it was. That word strikes me because of an analysis of the Modernist movement in the Catholic Church's philsophy and theology that slowly shifted thinking during the 20th century.

The philosophy allows for shifts in meaning and does not admit of an absolute truth or an absolute dogma. My limited underestanding is that it is like a shape shifter: a truth or dogma can mean anything that the person speaking wants it to mean. It remind me of my time teaching public school students in religious education. Those children already had the idea that there was your truth and my truth, and that words could be made to mean anything a person wanted them to be.

Cardinal Fernandez made a comment in an article I read wherein he was trying to explain what was happening with the Church's shift in this whole area.

I don't have a more profound understanding of the Deposit of Faith than Rome has. But I am disturbed at some of this recent shift that has caused so much confusion among Catholics I know and live with. The whole idea of "you don't have to do (put in whatever you want) that any more" or "you don't have to believe (put in whatever you want) that anymmore" has become a way to stop conversations in group study sessions of each any ever kind I have been part of.

OTOH, several Bishops' Conferences and some Eastern Catholic sui juris Churches have objected to Pope Francis' teaching in this area, not to mention the entire African continent's collection of Bishops Conferences. It's disturbing because we don't seem to speak with a united voice as has been the case for the previous two millenia.

It has come down to this for me. What do we believe? Is it the same thing we were taught in our youth? What has shifted in catechesis that has left so many with so poor an understanding of what it means to be Catholic? What of the attitude that there are no consequences for any actions or lifestyles? With all of this, is it any wonder so many have a "take it or leave it" attitude?

I am haunted by the Lord's question. Will I find faith on the earth when I retrun?