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Feb 27th, 2026
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Joined: Mar 2025
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Some of the classified documents being de-classified and released by the Trump administration show how the CIA had assets in place in the Vatican to manipulate the elections of Pope John XXIII and Paul VI (working in their favor to help them get elected for their own geo-political reasons). What would this mean for the supposed infallibility of the Popes? If CIA can get popes of their choosing elected it throws a real big question mark up on the idea of papal infallibility. I'm not mistaking infallibility for impeccability so that's not the question/argument I'm getting at. I just don't know what this will mean for us as Byzantine Catholics. Do we return to Orthodoxy? Do we remain in communion with Rome but reject papal infallibility (which we should already be doing)? What are your thoughts? This is a crack pot theory promoted by people that don't like Vatican 2, Pope Francis, and it means nothing for the Byzantine Catholics because every Pope since 1958. Sedevacantism is an insane theory that has no logical backing to it. The church would cease to exist...this idea that the CIA has any control over the Catholic church's leadership is also silly.
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Joined: Mar 2025
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Is it silly to think the KGB had influence over the Russian Orthodox Church during the days of the Soviet Union? If it happened to them it can happen to anyone. And Roman Catholic Church history is full of external influence. The Frankish influence of the Church is what led to all the changes in faith and practice that caused the great schism.
And the documents were released from the CIA themselves. Jay posted them all on his social media so people could read and verify them for themselves. It's not so easy to dismiss as a crack pot theory when the evidence is coming to light proving otherwise. And it certainly adds another layer to Vatican II that has yet to be talked about in any meaningful way.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Christ is in our midst!!
EasternChristian19,
You seem obsessed with papal infalliblility but it also seems you don't understand it. Only twice has a pope declared a doctrine infallibly, once in 1854 and the other in 1950. Both times it was after consultation with the bishops of the world in communion with him and only a declaration of a dogma that was held from time immemorial. In both cases the declaration was made because of challenges to that dogma. Not everything that a pope teaches is infallible: note the great pushback on Fiducia Supplicans.
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Joined: May 2026
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My two cents: Even if it were true, the Catholic church has historically been a political church. This means it has offered as well as denounced certain political positions at least since American history. For instance, it has called socialism a heresy if I'm not mistaken. At the same time, you have certain theologians that espouse things like liberation theology. On another note, St. Gaspar del Buffalo in the Western Rite was vehemently anti-Masonic and against the French Revolution. It's good for Jesus' people to "Be wise as serpents, and innocent as doves."
*shrugs* It's weird that you almost imply a separation of Church and State.
Now what may be concerning is if those CIA operatives put a Papal authority in that undermined the historical-theological tradition of Christian church by what they enacted while in the office. You might have a point there.
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