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Justinians unwarranted intrusion into the council most assuredly does affect the authority of what he wrote. The fact of the matter is he was an emperor and not a bishop, and therefore he had no business doing what he did.

More concise and to the point, and that which is not taken into the overall picture of the council, is the cultural, political, and religious understanding of what was going on in the Roman Empire at that time.

Justinian inherited an empire that was falling apart. The Originists in Jerusalem were causing massive problems with their teaching. The borders of the empire were suffering from incursions by pagan tribes to the north , and the empire had lost a significant amount of land to them. In addition, there were violent arguments between the Chalcedonians and the non-Chalcedonians, sometimes ending in death.. Historians have written that while the council of second Constantinople was an attempt to unify a fractured empire by bringing everyone under the umbrella of one set of beliefs and teachings, it turned out as a tremendous failure. 80 years later, the Empire was still suffering from the same problems.

And then there is the whole issue of how Justinian approached the council. Kidnapping a pope, holding him against his will, and muscling the bishops is not exactly an exercise in proper ecclesial authority. The whole way the council was called and enacted has the smell of four day old fish about it.

Fr. Aidan Kimel has written an excellent piece on Constantinople II, which covers in great detail what I have only briefly touched upon. I would suggest it would be a good reading for those who really want to understand what was going on with this council.

Your argument is flawed, Edward H. Here's why: While it's true the Abrahamic God has the ability to know all things, scripture in His inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, indicates there are certain things the Almighty chooses not to know. For instance, he told the ancient Israelites the following:

Deuteronomy 30:19
"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants,

Giving people free will and allowing them to choose between life and death does not line up with your comment that God already knew what every person would do. Your above comment that, "the tormenting of millions of souls was His will" and that that makes Him "a monster beyond any description we can give" is not supported by scripture.


NeutralZone
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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . "(James 1:19-20)

Your argument is flawed, Edward H. Here's why: While it's true the Abrahamic God has the ability to know all things, scripture in His inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, indicates there are certain things the Almighty chooses not to know. For instance, he told the ancient Israelites the following:

Deuteronomy 30:19
"I take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you today that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the curse; and you must choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants,

Giving people free will and allowing them to choose between life and death does not line up with your comment that God already knew what every person would do. Your above comment that, "the tormenting of millions of souls was His will" and that that makes Him "a monster beyond any description we can give" is not supported by scripture.


NeutralZone
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Actually, it is not my argument at all. You are choosing to cross intellectual swords with David Bentley Hart. I am not smart enough to come up with such a statement, and quite frankly, I couldn't carry Dr. Hart's briefcase.

Since it's not your argument, Edward H, you should have made that clear to those reading your post that you were merely repeating somebody else's flawed philosophical ideas.


BTW: Just because David Hart wrote over a dozen books, that doesn't mean a thing in the eyes of the Abrahamic God. Nothing he wrote was by inspiration of the Almighty God. Therefore, his writings are prone to error.


1 Corinthians 3:19
"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God, for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.”"




NeutralZone
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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . "(James 1:19-20)

Kind of an arrogant little twerp, aren't ya? Most people I know of would have large respect for DBH, and certainly wouldn't relish crossing intellectual swords with him He has embarrassed the hell out of more than one self-described intellectual.

Yes, he is human, but most people reading his writing had declared that his arguments are pretty air tight. But guess you would be the exception, eh? He has a spot over on Substack. Why don't you go over and in your immense wisdom, call him out? I'd pay good money to watch the show.

And BTW - you come across as a Fundamentalist sort with statements such as "in His inspired word." Makes me glad I left Fundamentalism decades ago.

Christ is in our midst!!

Edward H,

Your most recent post crosses the line when it comes to the civility we maintain on this forum. We don't direct cutting remarks to other members with whom we disagree.

With that in mind, I am closing this thread.

Bob
Moderator