www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Vesting When Serving Ecumenically

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Herbigny:
[QB] But Adam, if one wears the greek style >Riassa, those wide (OK, Turkish, whatever) >sleeves, provide lots of ventilation! And if

Yes, but the problem is not the sleeves (my stichar has wide sleeves with lots of room for air) but the fact that you would have yet another layer on! That can only make things hotter. And besides, I am not much of a fan of the riassa as I have noted elsewhere on here.

As for the Kamelavka, I'm not a monk or in major orders and so cannot wear one.

>that one must where a pidriasnyk underneath the >Stikhar? (assuming that the stikhar fits well,

I have always taken it as such, and it is generally required since even the most highly tailored vestments will not always hide whatever you have on underneath in the same way that a pidriasnky will.

Adam

I'm glad we don't have such things as the riassa in the Old Rite. It makes life cooler and less cumbersome.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

"I have been asked to preach the homily...."

I hate to be the RC "stick in the mud here," (maybe I should just butt out) but what are the rules regarding BC subdeacons preaching? In the RC church, deacons may preach, but only after they have received specialized training, and with episcopal approval.

Just curious (or being a troublemaker).

Martin

As an ordained sub-deacon one should contact his bishop, get his permission to do this, and if granted to do so His Grace will advise you on the proper actions.

Sincerely,

Rob

Dear Martin, anyone can be blessed by the bishop to preach. Generally this is limited to deacons and priests. While assisting a (temporarily) priestless parish for a while as subdeacon, leading Typika with Communion from Presanctified Gifts, I was given permission to preach as necessary by the bishop. But this is not the norm.

And believe me, when it is 95-100 degrees here as it often can be with humidity in summer, I don't always follow the "layer rule" and wear the riassa over the podriasnik.

I have a light gray podrisanik made with a cotton blend that gets heavy use in warm weather. In Eastern Europe in winter one can see the potential benefit of an extra layer of riassa, but in the hot summer months, especially for outdoor services, one has to use just a bit of common sense/economia.

I remember discussing skufyas on this thread, but not kamilavkas. There is a difference. Kamilavkas are generally only worn by monastics, priests and protodeacons in the Russian tradition.
In the Greek tradition any deacon can wear the kamilavka. Even amongst the varous Orthodox jurisdictions there is great variety in the rules for the wearing of headgear.

Skufyas are generally worn outdoors and can be worn by minor orders, monastics, priests, deacons, protodeacons, basically any clergy with the blessing of the bishop or hegumen.

I've been reading this thread with quite a degree of interest but would like to , if I may , return to a statement made by Adam in his opening post

Now if my memory serves me Anglican Lay Readers are trained lay people who may, in the absence of a Priest, take services such as Matins - and would therefore as part of this Ministry also preach.

This being so it is also possible that the invitation to Adam to preach was possibly given expecting that he would also preach in the course of his Ministry.

Why not term it an address ?

Anhelyna, you are quite right that most subdeacons are expected to preach at least a few times in order to get experience and confidence when the time comes to preach on a regular basis. In fact it is often required in diaconate formation programs. Most Greek Catholic bishops have no problem blessing the subdeacon to preach occasionally and leave the frequency to the local pastor.

I just wanted to point out that when discussing an issue like this, while it is good and necessary to understand the norms, and their background, we should never allow ourselves to be enslaved by a hyperdeveloped sense of obedience to the "rule".

One of the beautiful aspects of the Byzantine tradition is its sense of freedom in keeping the tradition while allowing the flexibility when needed staying within the tradition.

Diak;

I absolutely agree with this last point!

Besides, don't you think an Easterner in full regalia will look a little vampire-like to the unwashed? Personally, I like the podriasnik alone for this reason. It is just different enough to get people's attention without being so beyond their regular experience as to be discounted before you ever open your mouth.

What's with the ascendency of hatwear? This seems to be most popular among Old Calendar leaning Ukrainians although I must admit it is starting to catch fire among the Ruthenians.

John

The solicitude of members here is quite heartening!

As I have been describing this venture to friends, I have tended to put--as I failed to do here in my opening posting--one or both of the words "homily" and "preach" in scare quotes, thus. In so doing, I was intending to indicate that this is something of an irregular matter for me insofar as I'm not in major orders and it's not exactly a homily insofar as I've been asked to concentrate not so much on the lectionary readings for the day as on the theme of lay ministry, the universal call to holiness, etc.

As for episcopal permission, I would not even think of doing this without it *in my own Church*. The "rule" here, as far as I understand it, is as Diak has winsomely described it: generally permissible in exceptional circumstances with the blessing of the bishop and under the supervision of a priest.

Finally, the droll phrase "vampire-like" more or less describes how I have been imagining people seeing me, which is yet another reason I'm glad not to wear full vestments! As the old lady used to put it, whatever you do, don't frighten the horses!

Dear Father Deacon John, perhaps its because you have a few Old Calendar Ukrainians hanging out at your parishes now and then...

I haven't tried to turn into a bat in my riassa yet...

Q: "Don't you think easterners in full regalia look a bit like vampires?" (paraphrased)

A: No.

I think that they look like they should--different. I know from experience that 90% of people even in the South where Orthodox and Byz Caths are not common recognize our priests as priests. Maybe they don't know what KIND of priest, but they are often very comfortable around them and I know in some parishes people have been led to the truth by seeing the priest witnessing in clerical garb.

As for hats, I am not a stickler about them as much as I am about the riassa but I love the way a kamilavka looks!

anastasios

Dear Adam;

I feel for you. However, you do not need the blessing of your hierarch. You are not being sent as an official "ambassador" of the church, nor are you speaking as such. Furthermore, it is not even an assembly of your church. You are not participating in the liturgy of a non-aligned church. You are not even giving a homily in the strict sense of its use.

As far as giving some pointers, just be yourself. You are passionate about what you do and what you believe. Let it show.

John

In most Anglican parishes, you wouldn't be the only doing so!