www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Seminaries and mandatory celibacy

I have a list of Eastern Catholic seminaries in the Byzantine tradition. How many enforce mandatory celibacy on their seminarians?

Nyiregyhaza, Hungary
Cluj, Romania
Baia Mare, Romania
Oradea, Romania
Uzhorod, Ukraine
Pittsburgh, USA
Lviv, Ukraine
Ivano-Frankivsk, Ukraine
Ternopil, Ukraine
Drohobych, Ukraine
Washington, DC, USA???
Stamford, USA
Ottawa, Canada
Curitiba, Brazil
Rome, Italy (Pontifical)
Rabone, Lebanon
Beit Sahour, Israel
Newton, USA
Presov, Slovakia
Kosice, Slovakia

Correct my list if you know any of the above listed institutions are not seminaries or if I left any out.

Joe

Here are the seminaries listed - a "yes" indicates the attempt to impose mandatory celibacy; a "no" indicates the absence of such an attempt (but does not necessarily indicate the absence of any pressure at all):

Nyiregyhaza, Hungary - no
Cluj, Romania - no
Baia Mare, Romania - no
Oradea, Romania - no
Uzhorod, Ukraine - no
Pittsburgh, USA - yes
Lviv, Ukraine - no
Ivano-Frankivsk, Ukraine - no
Ternopil, Ukraine - no
Drohobych, Ukraine - no
Washington, DC, USA??? - no
Stamford, USA - no
Ottawa, Canada - no
Curitiba, Brazil - yes (this is a monastic seminary)
Rome, Italy (Pontifical Greek College) - no
Rabone, Lebanon - no
Beit Sahour, Israel - no
Newton, USA - are there any students?
Presov, Slovakia - no
Kosice, Slovakia - no information

N.B. In the Middle East there is pressure on younger men to opt for celibacy, and there is an idea that married priests belong only in villages. But this is changing.

Incognitus

Incognitus,

Newton, USA None at present that I am aware of - if there were any, the answer would be "no"

Joe,

Missing from your list -

Methuen, MA, USA - yes (monastic seminary)

Many years,

Neil

"Pittsburgh, USA - yes"

The married seminarian currently attending there would be surprised to learn this.

Also in Rome were two UGCC colleges, St. Sofia and St. Josaphat's. St. Sofia accepted married men, as several were ordained there by Patriarch Josyp, St. Josaphat's was run by the Basilians, and at one time they did not take married men. I do not know the current operational status of either.

As would be the several others who have applied or made serious inquiries. Thanks be to God.

In addition, they just remodeled the Ukrainian seminary in DC to allow for families. So that's a definite yes.

Fr. Deacon Lance,

This case is a problem that a certain bishop introduced. Normally, a seminarian would get married after completing education/training but before ordination. Of course, we know of married students attending Orthodox seminaries in the US. This seminarian you refer to gets married immediately before beginning his seminary training. Are the other students at our Pittsburgh seminary allowed to find wives too? The answer above is best suited for those students who cannot enjoy the same option. Instead of finding a solution, we introduce new problems. Yes, many would find it a surprise, indeed, to learn that our seminary is now open to married vocations. How come we don't let our potential vocations in our parishes know that such an option exists for them as they discern their future? Please elaborate how all this is so.

Joe

Not necessarily. Some men in Eastern Europe are indeed married before seminary as they had some other education or secular employment prior to entering seminary.

But you do bring up an excellent point, Joe. If this is the case, why isn't it made public?

It was no secret that St. Josaphat's was being remodelled partly to house some married candidates.

It's interesting that the first priest ordained by Kyr Richard (Seminack) as a bishop in Chicago was a married man last month.

Diak,

I am aware of delayed vocations. Seminarians from Uzhorod tell me that they are expected to finish their studies first before marriage. They told me that this was their normal practice. I am only referring to those seminarians who come straight out of high school in the U.S. When they enter our seminary, can they actually contemplate getting married after they finish their theological training but before ordination? Must they be financially independent first?

I thank Fr. Deacon Lance for noting (however indirectly) that our seminary in Pittsburgh does accept married candidates.

Joe

Domilsean,

Actually, it's a definite "no"

Many years,

Neil

As the saying goes, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". When a married man, having been born and raised in the USA, is ordained to the priesthood by a Ruthenian bishop in the USA after receiving his education at Ss Cyril and Methodius, no one will outdo me in joy.

Incognitus

Thanks Neil, I had it backwards.

I've been wondering about the issue of if men should be married before or after seminary. A friend of mine, who is a member of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese went to seminary, then just hung out (it seemed to us)... he was teaching at an Orthodox school in Johnstown, PA for a few years, waiting to meet someone... well, he had a girlfriend but I don't know all the details... he finally got married in late October and ordained in mid-November. I don't know if many other stories are similar--however, his dad is an ACROD priest who, I understand, was commited to celibacy in seminary but changed his mind before ordination (obviously).

Why? Can you not be happy for all those married men who were later ordained by other bishops?

I would be quite happy to be able to tell our parish vocations that such a thing is possible. As far as I know, there is NO such plan to open up the priesthood to those contemplating marriage after they finish their seminary training. Correct me if I am wrong. The Church would have to be committed to financially investing and supporting such an endeavor. It would be different if one was financially independent, then I am sure anything is possible. It costs money to raise and support a family. But such financial liabilities can always be outsourced.

Joe

What I find most distressing is that even where married priests are permitted, it is still difficult to find vocations. Our Greek Orthodox brethren can attest to that.

Dear Jim,

A very good point!

I don't think the RC's would have problems finding vocations to a married RC priesthood, if it were ever allowed (and without having to go through the trouble to become a Protestant minister first, and then apply to be received back into the RC Church . . . ).

But those churches that have long established traditions of married priests often DO have problems getting vocations (although not in the UGCC these days).

Part of this is because of the social position of the married priest in the community - something that not every potential presbytera would want to put up with, having everthing scrutinized and all that.

Also, have we ever given any thought to what happens to the Presbytera should her priestly husband ever die while still in the 'parish saddle?'

I once heard a group of presbyteras talk amongst themselves about their gripes - and quite legitimate ones at that - and how there is no one who wants to listen to them.

Alex