www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Seminaries and mandatory celibacy

Thanks for the post, Alex.

I'm sure these concerns must weigh heavy on anyone who considers taking his wife and children into the priestly life. What should one do, rather, how should a husband and wife prepare themselves for these difficulties? What impact should hearing about them have on discerning your vocation?

Thanks,

David Lewis

Though one can't mention the 'money' word ...

Even if a married priesthood was permitted, there is the issue of supporting a wife (and children). A few years back, my one RC classmate from the seminary was only getting paid $500 per month. Sure, he got a 'free stay' at the rectory, but he also had to take care of three parishes. Talk about stress! He, and a few other classmates, have left the ministry. Several of them were in debt up to their eyeballs too.

Potential vocations don't have to look very far to see distressed parishes around them. One has to make a choice between ministry and more economical employment. Such ministry only looks good for those ordained in countries more economically distressed than ours; hence the out-sourcing of ministry to foreigners to fill the void. What crazy man would want to risk jeopardizing his family's future on a pitiful salary? This is why I think those candidates who have spouses with gainful employment or those married men who are now retired (with children out of the house) have promising chances at being accepted for such ministry.

Until the money factor is solved, those going into full-time ministry must remain celibate. They are cheaper that way. Sure, nobody wants to talk about it in this sort of way, but as I heard many times before - who is going to finance it?

Also, if we can't even guess where many of our parishes will be in ten years (or even five) then we can't even begin to think long term.

We (Ruthenians) are too far removed from a church culture in this country where the traditional ratio of married clerics to celibate ones is 80/20. We missed out over the years how to adjust to a new climate both economically and religiously to come up with alternative means of dealing with a married clergy. We are now just hanging on by a thread. We can simply mimick other churches (Orthodox or Protestant) how to work in new married clergy, but I feel it is too late. I remember an eparchial official commenting that those who would be ordained might just serve liturgies only and will not get anywhere near the already pitiful salary amount a regular cleric gets. And what celibate cleric would give up his large parish to serve a poor one in order to permit a married cleric to raise his family? Many veteran clerics have their own retirement to think about.

So, it boils down to and money, honey. If you aren't able to bring to the table a financially solvent solution to financing your stay, then the natural solution is celibacy. This is the way it is.

Of course, there is the order to please and comply with Rome's rules. As long as we have church leaders who act like sycophants to Rome's discasteries, vocations loose respect and hope. They go elsewhere where things happen.

Joe

One alternative:

Get married, go to seminary, get ordained (in whichever order is most appropriate) and then serve as a chaplain in the armed services for 20 years. You go in as an O-3, which aint bad, Uncle Sam takes good care of you and pays for all the kids you want to have, and then you retire after 20 years with have of your salary for life (which at that point may be O-5 or even O-6). Then you can serve in just about any parish and make ends meet. All branches of service are desparate for Catholic Chaplains, so it shouldn't be too hard to get in. You'd probably have to serve a lot of RCs too, of course, and wear a funny haircut, but...

Just a thought,

David Lewis

What's kind of distressing is that local Protestant churches pay their pastors rather well - along with their assistant pastors, musicians, etc. Do they have more money than we have? I don't think so. Maybe the bishops will just have to allocate resources differently to accomodate married priests. I remember when nuns taught the local RC schools and received $40 per month. The lay teachers now get much more than that, although it is still about 90% of what the public school system pays. I think the money is there to pay the priests better, but the bishops won't part with it until they have to. It might mean not financing the latest scheme from some wild-eyed, crazy liturgist, but it can be done.

But for our eparchies, that is not where the immediate need is at.

In the RC, the diocese owns the church, I know. For many Orthodox (I think?), the parish owns the church and rectory, etc, and takes care of it. How does it work in the Eastern Catholic churches? I don't know... do they all follow Rome on this?

My ACROD friend had to wait a few weeks after his ordination until the rectory was fixed up and furnished by the parish, but I don't know who pays his salary (His dad's an ACROD priest, too, but I remember growing up that his mom taught at a local RC school, so I assume he and his sister went for free, as well as the local Catholic HS), so maybe that adds something to salary discussion.

Also, all this talk of finances makes me think about a discussion I had with my mom one night... she's RC and a big supporter of her parish (#2 donor or something, and they give exactly 5% or whatever the suggested offering is... so the rest aren't shouldering the load), and she says that she would NOT like to have to support a priest's family... the burden of just paying their share is enough.

In addition to supporting families, just supporting priests might be difficult. People complain about paying their dues and giving extra to the church, but how do they think priests live? My RC priest friends only get about $1000 a month, which is well below poverty-level!

The Church desperately wants vocations, but what would happen if they GOT them? Who pays for seminary? Who pays salary? Etc?

For most Orthodox Churches, the contract is that the parish must either provide housing for the priest and his family, or a housing allowance to defray costs of his home. A family friend since his days at the seminary insisted on having the housing allowance, for just the reason you mention...he had a wife and was starting a family. Mortgages can be insured, and be paid off if the mortgage holder dies, just as cars and credit cards can. And, there IS life insurance. I would hope that a married priest forced by circumstances to live in a church owned rectory would be as prudent as any other man with a family, and insure his life, so that if he dies "in that parish saddle", his family will not be beggared.

Gaudior, who thinks it a crying shame what the Orthodox (except GOA) and the Catholics pay their pastors.

Money is the root of all evil, but it is also the oil that keeps the church operating.

Love of money is the root of all evil.

Thank you for the correction.

Dear Joe Thur and djs,

Well, I hate money, but think I need a lot of it.

I guess I'm all right then . . .

Alex

Dear David,

We have married priests in the UGCC up here that teach and do other things to support their families.

Some priests from Ukraine here even do things like house painting and the like!

It is difficult, I suppose, to support several married priests in a parish (especially when the celibate pastor believes he is entitled to the highest salary of them all).

You get what you pay for, the saying goes, and I believe that.

If EC's want good, committed married priests, then we're going to have to pay to support them to keep them from financial anxieties that would definitely distract them from their pastoral and spiritual responsibilities.

Protestants and Jews are way ahead of us on that score.

Alex

Aahh, money!

Indeed, it does make the world go round!

And was it Elizabeth Taylor who said: "Money isn't everything; it's the ONLY thing!"

Amado

She would know! She's certainly gone through enough of it.

It would be helpful if the Church shared with the faithful what works, and what doesn't, in obtaining vocations within a given jurisdiction on a regular basis.

It would also be helpful to know how much lay support was received for a given vocation program and how many vocations resulted from it.