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Cathedral canons are uniquely European and I believe outrank priest monsignori.

http://oldworldrus.com

Bless me a sinner, Reader Sergius!

Yes, absolutely!

They were organized almost like a monastic order and many of them were assigned a portion of the Psalms to pray daily so that the entire group of Canons at a Cathedral said the Psalter daily.

George Herbert, a Canon in his own Rite did this as well.

Groups of Catholic Canons were also often assigned Psalters for the dead according to rank.

Thus, 600 Psalters were said for the soul of a deceased bishop in England and this number was divided up among the Canons where the bishop was buried.

How are you doing, Reader Sergius?

Alex

Dear Alex and Mor Ephrem and all in our forum community:

May Our Lord truly bless you and grant you the peace only He can bestow!

Thank you both for your kindness. It is people like yourselves that help make the experience of the priesthood the blessing that it truly is. I know that this forum is also a way we can minister to each other and make a positive difference for the church. It is an opportunity in which we are putting the talents we received from Our Lord to great use and available to so many people. I thank God each day for these opportunities and for the Christian friendships he is forging among us.

Our forum maintains the highest standards in Christian charity and decorum and I'm proud to be a member and contributor. This is so refreshing to see in today's church and world.

Alex you are right, I do love both religion and theology very much, just as I love God and our church from my heart. These have been at the core of my person since very early youth. I hope that in some small way, I can make a difference in the world by putting love for God and devotion to the church together in a practical way, fulfilling the real purpose of theology - to instill in all of us the "love of God."

Thanks Alex for the clarification about the distinction between bishops and priests who are addressed as "monsignor." I think that this makes sense for one to be able to know who they are referring to in places where the term is used so widely.

Catholicos, yes, I believe that I indeed have the book you mention, but between home and office, I'm not sure where it is. I remember it being a wonderful resource of Roman church protocol and am going to have to dig it out and consult it again sometime. I believe that I originally found it at a Border's where it was on discount, but it can actually be very costly because of its quality binding, cover, size, pictures, etc. It's funny because when writing about this topic, I thought of the book, but decided to go on and write anyway, without consulting it.

Alex, I do appreciate the humor in your story about our "dekany." I'd love it if you could elaborate on their role. I can't remember exactly, but am I correct in saying that this corresponds to the position of "dean" (today-protopresbyter in the Code of Canons) or likewise, an "archdeacon" in the Anglican or other European (perhaps Roman too) traditions?

I always found the position of "archdeacon" to be precarious because of the way that I've seen it used. I understand its correct place in our churches as that of an important deacon at the cathedral or who is the bishop's personal deacon and travels with him from parish to parish.

But, our rituals used to prescribe that the "archdeacon" present the candidate for ordination to the bishop and lead him around the altar. This was always though, performed by a priest. I thought the terminology to be odd. I think that today, we simply call this role that of an "archpriest." I would imagine that the reason it used to say "archdeacon" is because the archdeacon was historically, an important priest of the eparchy, not an actual deacon, at least in later years. Perhaps at one time, it was actually a deacon who fulfilled this role?

About "canons": I have noticed that Bishop Robert of Parma created a "chapter of canons" several years ago. I had not seen this used in a long, long time, perhaps never in the Subcarpathian Church in the US.

As you know, the eparchies in Eastern Europe all had canons, who were attached to the Cathedral Church and assisted the Eparch in advisory and administrative capacities. This is the modern idea of the "Cathedral Chapter of Canons."

Historically, because a Cathedral Church is technically supposed to celebrate the entire Divine Office (complete cycle of services) each and every day, as an example to the rest of the eparchy and to pray for the People of God everywhere, the purpose of the priests who were "canons" was originally to reside at the cathedral and celebrate the services in their entirely on a regular basis. Hence the title canon originates in their ministry in chanting all of the "canonical hours" in the cathedral church, being appointed to this task by the pastor of the cathedral who was and still is the eparchial bishop.

Alex, as I was writing this, you too had your thinking cap on. Great! Beyond their duty of chanting the "canonical hours" I'm interested to find out that even prior to this, canons were assigned the task of reciting the Psalter for various occasions and causes. This makes sense, because the Psalter is an integral part of the entire Liturgy of the Hours. I do remember that, in studying the origins of the Divine Office, the hours as we know them were originally composed merely of groupings of psalms (still an important part today), a certain number of which were recited throughout a day, week, month, year, etc., in varying degrees of frequency. Your knowledge of the "rule" of prayer is very commendable and I have admired your self-discipline in this regard for some time. Please remember all of us in your daily prayers.

The most venerable Canon that I had the privilege of knowing here in the United States was the Very Reverend Canon Dr. Julius Marina, JCD, a priest who escaped the liquidation of our church in Europe and had been a member of the Cathedral Chapter of the Eparchy of Mukachevo. He was a very impressive, gentlemanly and polished clergyman who spent his latter years in the area of Perryopolis, PA and was pastor of St. Nicholas Greek Catholic Church there before his retirement. He was also a professor at our seminary in Pittsburgh as were many of our academic priests who either fled or, being in Rome or abroad, could not return to their native eparchies.

The first Apostolic Visitor for Greek Catholics in the United States, (both Galician and Transcarpathian), was the Very Rev. Canon Andrei Hodobay, who served from 1905 -1906. His missionary work was instrumental in obtaining the appointment of our first bishop, Vladyka Sotor Stephen Ortynskyj.

I still see canon used in Episcopal and Anglican dioceses, but I don't think that the Romans do any more, do they?

God bless you all and I do look forward to our discussions so very much.

Father Joe

I still see canon used in Episcopal and Anglican dioceses, but I don't think that the Romans do any more, do they?

As I wrote earlier, it's a European (including English) institution of long standing and I think it still exists in Roman Catholic dioceses there. Canons are among the most important men in the diocese. America never adopted this institution, perhaps because priests were jealous of the status of canons. Monsignori have some extra status but not the power of canons.

Canons to the left of me...

Canons to the right of me...

Tzing-boom.

http://oldworldrus.com

Canons we still do have - and it's a great honour[ or so I'm told, since I would not have personal experience ]- to be appointed to the Cathedral Chapter.

Just a Point of Information

Dear Father Joe,

First, may I thank you for your comments, which are undeserved, at least for me...I tend to agree with you about Alex, though.

I, too, have wondered about archdeacons. In the Syrian Church, the archdeacon is categorised as part of the diaconate, and not the priesthood. Yet, archdeacons wear all priestly vestments except the phayno (phelonion). Furthermore, although I know nothing of their ceremonial responsibilities other than that when they're around, they're the senior deacon for the Liturgy, and get to do the fun stuff , I know that in the history of the Indian Church, archdeacons have played a great role...somehow or other, at one time, there was an Archdeacon who had jurisdiction over the Church, in the name of the Patriarch. This has led to people like my cousin trying to convince me that archdeacons are equal to bishops, something which I'm trying to convince him isn't the case, at least by virtue of Holy Orders.

Then again, I don't know if archdeacons are really just deacons in most of the priest's vestments, or priests in most of the priest's vestments, but masquerading as deacons. At any rate, they're not equal to bishops, that much I know...

So the question remains...what is an archdeacon? A deacon? Or a priest?

Lance,

I was hoping that you would post on a thread entitled "Lances!" By all means, complete this project. It would be a real blessing to many of us.

Anthony

"In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and His train filled the temple. Above Him stood the seraphim; each had six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet; and wwith two he flew. And one called to another and said: 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts; the whole earth is full of His glory." Isaiah 6:1-3

"And around the throne (of God), on each side of the throne, are four living creatures, full of eyes in front and behind;...and the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, 'Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!" Revelation 4:6b,8

Sorry, the pressure to show Biblical precedent was too great to resist.

I still don't see why we don't use Revelation in the Liturgy.

Dan Lauffer

Bless me a sinner, Father Joe!

Why is it that in reading your post it is like experiencing the flow of warm, refreshing waters over the soul?

How lucky the people you minister to are! How fortunate are we to have you here!

The rich liturgical prayer life of our Church is wonderful to participate in.

I don't know about the self-discipline, but I find that it is good to put oneself in a prayerful environment with candles, small bells, incense, a large scapular or some other robe, a hand cross etc.

"Thank the Lord, for He is good, for His mercy endures forever!"

Kissing your right hand as that of Christ Himself,
I again implore your blessing,

Alex

More about "canons'.

I remembered just now that Norbertines, the Order of Premontre founded by St Norbert in the early Middle Ages, are very like monks but are actually a kind of canons, but not necessarily powerful ones like cathedral canons in Europe.

There are Norbertines in the US, including the most excellent St Michael's Abbey in California.

They are Augustinian in rule, but Benedictine in polity (which is why they have abbeys and not friaries like Augustinians). Like monks, they live in community, stay in one community for the most part and are dedicated primarily to daily liturgical prayer. Unlike monks, most such canons are priests.

http://oldworldrus.com

The practice of a Cathedral Chapter is still normative, not European, for both the Latin and Greek Catholic churches. As an extraordinary (the Church's term) practice, chapters are not established in countries that are republics.

The result of this might be roughly the same as saying chapters are European, but it is not how the Church says it.

K.

(Ahhhh, friends, mark your calendars. For it is this day I am the traditionalist and Serge is the lax modernist!! )

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Kurt ]

The practice of a Cathedral Chapter is still normative, not European, for both the Latin and Greek Catholic churches. As an extraordinary (the Church's term) practice, chapters are not established in countries that are republics.
The result of this might be roughly the same as saying chapters are European, but it is not how the Church says it.

So I was right — chapters are European in practice, not found in the US. So why the gloating?

Why no Catholic chapters in republics?

http://oldworldrus.com

Oh, Serge, no gloating, just drawing attention to the role reversal. (I'm not growing a beard, however!) BTW, I'm going off line to have a cocktail. Please feelf ree to join me.

Right, one could observe that Cathedral Chapters are commonplace in Europe and not in the New World. But the Church doesn't say, we will have Chapters in Europe and not in the New World. It says chapters are normative, but we have determined republics are an extraordinary situation and we are not establishing them there.

So, I don't think we will have Chapters in the Russian Republic but I thought Canada does have them (Alex?).

K.

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Kurt ]

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Kurt ]

but we have determined republics are an extraordinary situation and we are not establishing them there.

OK, why are republics an extraordinary situation in this case? IOW, how do canons conflict with republican government?

The Anglicans, who retain much medieval church government and of course do not have monsignori, do have canons in countries that are republics.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Serge ]

I am sorry Kurt but you are incorrect, at least as it concerns Eastern Churches. The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches replaces the chapter of cathedral canons with the college of consultors and the presbyteral council. Also the Code states that the only ecclesiastical honors to be given are those native to that Church. So by current law, canons in the Eastern Church are extraordinary rather than normative.

As for the Latin Church, while the bishop of a diocese is free to create a chapter he is under no obligation to do so. He must however have a presbyteral council and college of consultors.

As for precedence, canons out rank simple priests and vicars forane but are below all ranks of monsignori. This evidenced in their heraldry as well. A canon may surmount his coat of arms with a black galero (Roman hat) with three black tassels on either side of the shield. All ranks of monsignori have six tassels, but in different colors denoting their rank.

Also, there are three grades of monsignori. In addition to Chaplains of His Holiness (the lowest grade) and Prelates of Honor of His Holiness (middle grade) are Protonotaries Apostolic (highest grade) which have limited use of pontificals. By law all vicar generals not of episcopal order are granted this rank. As for vesture, all ranks may use the black cassock with amaranth trim for daily wear. Only Prelates of Honor and Protonotaries may use the violet choir cassock.