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The idea of a woman covering her head in church is cultural tradition, not Holy Tradition. Obedience applies to things which are rooted in Holy Tradition, not cultural tradition. We must always discern between the two and avoid raising cultural customs to the level of Holy Tradition. If we look at 1 Corinthians 11 the Apostle Paul addresses the conduct of women when gathered with the Church for the celebration of the Eucharist. In verses 13-16 he clearly appeals to the custom of the communities of Judea (i.e., the then current concept of what was proper dress), not for a one time standard but as a standard for his age. What is being said from the perspective of Holy Tradition is that men and women each have their own proper roles in the Church. Customs of dress must be judged from the perspective men and women each have in the Church as appropriate to Christian standards of modesty. The woman who chooses not to cover her head is not violating Holy Tradition. Neither is the altar server who has his hair dyed purple and orange.

Administrator,

Thank you.But shouldn't a server at least dye his or her hair liturgical colors?

OrthodoxSWE,

Outward actions matter.Making faith an action verb in my life is obedience.

Nicky's Baba

Responding to someone who said a woman's hair is a distraction in liturgy, I would say women who wear extremely short skirts to church would be much more of a distraction.

What about men??? Should we have to wear long sleeves, to cover up our arms? In monasteries, this is a requirement. After my first visit to a monastery, I kinda picked up the habit of wearing only long-sleeved shirts to church.

Dear Respected Administrator,

Its hard to argue with the logic you have presented... but I'll try anyways. What you say would make perfect sense if the custom of women head-covering would have been dropped by some Churches along the way of the last two milennia. But the fact that it has been the universal practice of the Churches of East and West up until only a couple of decades ago when the heresy of feminism shook the Western world, makes me a little suspicious of acceptiing this common well-reasoned explanation you have presented.

I agree with you that this is not a matter of Holy Tradition per se, but I don't buy the argument that because this was their people's custom then and is not ours now, it has no meaning in today's Church. If this is true, how is it that it was the custom of every Jew, Catholic and Orthodox up until a few decades ago? As I said above, I think it is a nice tradition which could have some real significance in today's Church.

But in the end, I really don't care what women do. They have to think about it, read about it, and want to do it for good reasons and not just to look holy or traditional or do it to please their husbands or to just fit in with a parish fad. I think if women look at all that goes along with the topic of head-covering they can come up with very good reasons to do so.

In Christ's Light,

Wm. Der-Ghazarian

Dear Christ Teen,

My post was meant to raise such questions, the answers to which I don't have in the technical sense that you seek.

The scriptures are indeed a lesson book, not a history book, lesson book, or certainly not a biology book. So if God wants us to know that EVEN if we procreate with angels, we'll still live no longer than 120 years, as the scripture says, I think that we can draw the lesson about our proper position in relation to our Creator. Isn't that what so much of scripture is? It is an attempt to get us to realize our humble station and what that could become for us if we only follow him.

Look at it in that way and Paul's admonition begins to come clear! He's not fighting angels, but our own pride (male) and vanity (female).

With love in Christ.

Just wanted to reply to something our brother Christian seemed to find "protestant" - that the decision to cover or not must be made in freedom.

In freedom God created the world.
In freedom He created the human race - and gifted us with free will.
In freedom the Theotokos said "yes"
In freedom the Lord made Himself "subject" to Mary and Joseph
In freedom He gave Himself to be crucified.

If you get married, practically the first thing the priest asks BOTH the man and the woman is "Have you come here freely..." because marriage is not valid if it is entered into under compulsion. (I expect the same thing is done at a monastic profession, but I have not been privileged to attend one, so I don't know for sure.) Our obedience has value only when it is given freely.

So it is IN FREEDOM that I submit my life to God, and IN FREEDOM that I choose to cover my head.

If that's "protestant," then hallelujah, sign me right up.

Sharon

(who does not dye her hair, but finds that as time goes on, the grey schmattes are ever more color coordinated with her natural color.)

Ghazar wrote:"...the custom of women head-covering would have been dropped by some Churches along the way of the last two milennia. But the fact that it has been the universal practice of the Churches of East and West up until only a couple of decades ago the custom of women head-covering would have been dropped by some Churches along the way of the last two milennia. But the fact that it has been the universal practice of the Churches of East and West up until only a couple of decades ago..."

Actually, the custom of women covering their heads is a direct result of the Turkish and Mongol domination of the Lands of the Balkan Pennisula and Russia.

It was against the law for a woman to leave her home and appear in public with her hair un-covered. The penalty was DEATH!

If you look at the traditional dress of the women of Greece, Bulgaria and Makedonia, you see that wear huge belt buckles often the size of dinner plates. These buckles were worn by women to protect their unborn children. Turkish soldiers were told that a pregnant woman carried the "EVIL EYE" and would kick or punch a woman in the stomach in an attempt to cause her to abort the infant. These belt buckles were small sheilds that were designed to absorb and deflect the blow.

Having a woman cover her head was a matter of survival that was made into a sense of piety and nothing more!

JMHO...

mark

Just wanted to add - my dear brother Andrew, if you have not met any prideful women or vain men, you must live with angels. Amongst the folks I meet (and especially with respect to my sinful self *sigh*) the passions are equal opportunity vices.

Cheers,

Sharon

Dear Mother Sharon,

I had the happiness of bringing some people to tears one day . . .

A "celebrated" porno star had died in Sweden and a person at the conference I was attending said, "Well, he's now in heaven making love to the angels . . ."

I shot back, "I dunno . . . I think he's where all the horny people are . . ."

Do you see the thoughts Andrew evokes in me?

Alex

Dear Mark,

Do you really think that we'll let you get away with that?

If you want to hold that women covered their heads in the tiniest, remotest mountain villages of the Balkans and Russia because the Ottoman Turks and Mongols, respectively, occupied the lowlands of those countries but somehow still forced this new practice to become virtually universal, then you'll need to simultaneously explain why the women in upland Montenegro and Byzantine Rite southern Italy and Sicily did the same without the benefit of occupying Turks and Mongols (who are also Turkic).

I'm not saying that everyone everywhere always wore head coverings (if this were the case then St. Paul wouldn't needed to have written his admonishment), but you'll need to make a stronger case.

Did it ever occurr to anyone that perhaps the Moslems adopted this tradition from the Christians?

I await your reply.

In Christ.

Hi Andrew

I have been researching and collecting traditional folk dress from Eastern Europe and the Balkans for over 25 years.

I work with several Eastern European dance groups to help them get their costuming to be as accurate and traditional as possible.

The information I've written about head coverings and their meanings comes from the research I've done.

I'm sorry if it doesn't meet with your approval but you can't change history no matter how hard you try.

mark

... and I thought it had something to do with Holy Scripture. Silly me!

Perhaps it was the same occupying Turks and Tartars that caused pious Catholic women in Western Europe to cover their heads until relatively recently!? The Tartar conquerors of Ireland are, of course, a well known part of Irish history.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, mok and sinner.

Dear Friends,

I once discussed the issue of headcoverings with my religion classes.

The next Saturday, many girls came to class wearing the ornate Slavic handkerchiefs on their heads.

Her Honor, the Principal, was not amused . . .

Alex

I sincerely hoped they pinned them under their chins and didn't knot them. That is definitely a canonical offense!

With love in Christ,
Mark, monk and sinner.

Bless me a sinner, Father Mark!

Funny you should say that . . .

What led to the kerchiefs was a video I showed them about the (priestless) Old Believers of Alberta.

They thought the kerchiefs were "cool."

And they asked me to show them how to make the two-fingered Sign of the Cross, which I did.

Many continued to cross themselves that way until the end of the school year.

Alex