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I've decided to start a thread here, as the Christian Names thread in the prayer forum was going off topic.

For years I've been fascinated by the phenomenon of people using as Christian names, these names that do not belong to any recognisable saint:

Howard
Russell
Stanley
Cecil
Morgan
Winston
Nelson

Of course, strictly speaking, these are family names of old aristocratic and wealthy houses, and in the mid-Victorian era, parents began giving their children these names as first names, in the hopes that their children might one day be illustrious too.

Now, I'm wondering about other unusual Christian names in the East - I realise I've met Greeks with names such as Platon, Aristotelis, Archimidis, Alkiviadis and so on... these are of course Pagan names, but I'm not too surprised about them, since they were all illustrious Greeks and Greeks would naturally wish to name their children after these lights. In the same vein, of course, seems to be the Slavic Vladimir, Olga, Boris, Gleb and suchlike.

I'm still slightly amused whenever I hear of someone named Orestes/Orest. Most with that name will know the name as belonging to the Great Martyr Orestes, but coming from a Classical background, my first thought is the mythological Orestes - who killed his mother for having murdered his father, was pursued by the Furies and took shelter in the Parthenon at Athens.

Again, with the same sort of Classical background, the name Dionysus raises more eyebrows still. I know a Greek priest named Dionysus, and how appropriate that Father Dionysus (do I hear Bacchants approaching?) should be a jolly fellow and fond of wine!

Any other interesting names out there?

Dear Edward,

I've noticed RC's taking the surnames of their Saints to justify the use of the names you've given.

"Howard" relates to the two aristocratic saints - St Philip Howard and his grandson, Bl. William Howard, who died for Catholicism.

Even "Ashley" refers to "Bl. Robert Ashley" of the English Martyrs.

"Morgan" is a Celtic version of "Pelagius" or "sailor" and there are St Pelagiuses in the calendar.

Also, the names "Matthew, Theodore, Deodatus, Geoffrey, Godfrey, Gottfried and Bohdan" are all different language spellings of the name "Theodore" or "Gift of God."

Interestingly, St Volodymyr, when he was baptised, took the name of "Basil" or "Vasili" meaning "King." He and Olha/Olena and Boris/Roman and Hlib/David are all in the Roman calendar, but under their Christian, not their pagan names.

Even though we EC's know them by their pre-baptismal names.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen was often told that "Fulton" is not a saint's name.

"Not yet," the holy hierarch would often reply, with a smile.

Alex

Hi Edward, glory to Jesus Christ!

Your post reminded me of how Roma Downey, the actress from Northern Ireland on "Touched By An Angel", describes the origin of her name:

Her maternal grandmother was Mary, and her paternal grandmother was named Rose. So her parents combined the first two letters of each name and came up with "Roma."

When the old Irish priest at their parish went to baptize her, he asked the parents "What saint are ya namin' her for?" They told him tht her name was Roma, and he objected that it was a pagan name.

They explained how they got the name, and he said, "Tell ya what... I'll baptize 'er Rosemary, and then ya can call 'er whatever the hell ya want."

God bless,

Karen

Hmmm. Dionysius, to begin at the end, represents Saint Dionysius the Areopagite, who is very well known.
I know of no Christian Saint whose name was Howard, so I can't help there. Russell is a common, although inexplicable, anglicization of Jaroslav. Nelson has a slight Scandinavian ring to it and could easily mean "son of Neil" - there are several Saints named Neil.

Personally I would hesitate to use the pagan Greek names but they are, alas, common among the Greeks - who really ought to know better.
Vladimir, Olga, Boris and Gleb are all the names of recognized Saints - intriguingly, they themselves took Saints names when they were baptized, but their original names passed into Christian use when they were numbered among the Saints.

Orestes always reminds me of Orestes P. Boomschmidt - a fictional character in a series of books I liked when I was a child.

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus,

Saint Philip Howard, of course . . .

RC's admit the surname as a Christian name too . . .

Alex

I think the many Stanleys I have met would take some minor offense - the common English variant of Stanislaus, the Polish saint, is Stanley. But I understand you were probably referring to the old British noble family. ;-)

I have met Greek women named Athena but they have had middle names that are clearly Christian. Specifically, I know an Athena Mary and Athena Catherine. They are decidedly Orthodox Christians and were decidedly raised as such, but for whatever reason their parents went seemingly pagan (or nationalistic?). It might just have been a fad at that time, they are of similar age. Athena is a lovely name, but if you are referencing the goddess, then I'm not sure I like that all that much. (One of the Athenas told me that there is a minor saint of that name, but I'm unaware of one. I don't really doubt that there is.)

I have also met Catholics of African descent from Guyana with non-Christian sounding first names and a religious middle name doubling as a confirmation name. I had friends in college who followed that model. They weren't sure why that was so, just that it always was so in their families, but one friend noted there are some African cultures where part of the rite of adulthood is to choosing a name for yourself. You are supposed to choose the Christian name when you are confirmed. Or so they told me. Again, these were people who were decidedly practicing Roman Catholics. I noticed their parents addressed them by the Christian name, even though it was technically the middle name.

I have an uncle named Vasyl who likes to call himself Russell. His sisters decided that should be his name when he was a little boy. It stuck. No one has any idea where it came from, they just looked at him and started calling him that.

I personally adore the name Olga. I have a couple cousins of that name. It is a good tough name. I am sure that if my name was Olga I would strike fear into the competition at track and field meets. Saint Olga was one of the saints who always impressed me in iconography - she looks like one tough cookie.

I really think I have the example of the oddest name to end all odd names.

Some years ago , my husband and I were doing the grocery shopping and we heard a mother shout to her kid [ obviously said child had wandered off - as is the habit of bored children ]

"Cassandra "

[ Now at this point I will explain that a certain newspaper in the UK had a column written by a person using that name. ]

Having heard this shout by the Mother we turned round - thinking the poor kid to have that name wished on them in this day and age - we forsaw comments being made at school about it .

To our horror we saw the gender of the child , and I'm afraid we scuttled away very very quickly so that our howls of laughter would not cause offense.


I leave you to imagine what the poor child was going to go through in school , when he had to explain that his mother called him after a column in the "Daily Mirror"

Certainly in England as a reaction to the former Catholic 'cult of saints' certain families introduced surnames as first names. The move is clearly anti-Catholic in origin.

I know Nelson is used of all places in Portugal to honor the memory of the Admiral. I think one of the English 40 Martyrs had the surname Howard. Also a few Greeks were named after Lord Byron.

ICXC
NIKA

The worst name I have ever heard belonged to a girl named after her father - her name was Bufordina. Of course, her father was named Buford. Do you suppose there ever was a St. Bufordina?

Believe it or not, Cleopatra is a Saint's name.

The Serbs have the practice of a Slava, or family patron saint, and thus often have non-saint's names individually. Srboljub ("Love of Serbs" or "Serbian Love" or something like that) is a great Serbian name.

Dave

Talk about odd first names . . . a friend who was teaching at a University in the USA reports that around 1980 he had a young woman in his class with the incredible name of "Rotunda". She had had the misfortune to be born shortly after the assassination of John Kennedy, and her mother had heard this word often during the television coverage and decided it sounded nice and would make a nice name for the baby. The mother, of course, did not realise what the name really meant.

Incognitus

Inexplanable first names? Try Vasco... as in Vasco da Gama who discovered the sea route to India. It's quite a typical portuguese name, although I have no idea where it comes from, nor do I know of any Saint Vasco. It could be a reference to Basque, as the spanish word for Basque is Vasco... but that doesn't seem to make the most sense.
Of course if you want to discuss non-saintly names in catholic countries, you can go no further than Brazil, where imagination is the rule to naming your child.
Every time a new brazilian football player comes to play in Portugal you can be sure a new name will enter your vocabulary.
Just to get the picture, there was a time when we had an Ednilso, and Edilson, and an Edmilson all playing at the same time.
Who can forget the famous Brazillian n� 10 Socrates?
There was a portuguese boy who played for Benfica called Kenedy, because his grandfather liked JFK... and Washington is a standard name as well.
I even met two brazilian sisters at a catholic youth meeting who were called, respectively, Carolina and Carol...

Needless to say I am hoping that there will one day be a Saint Vasco... just not too soon...
Filipe

Edward,

In answer to one of the names in your initial post, Cecil, wouldn't that be the masculine for Cecilia as in Saint Cecilia of Rome?

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I think that's the pattern with many non-European Christians. They take a European Christian name as evidence that they are Christians, and they also keep their given name. One of my favorite saints (and a good example of this) is St. Peter Wu Gousheng.

http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp2n.htm

http://chinesemartyrs.org/chinese_saints/01-e.htm

-- John

LOL ! And so true !

-- John