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Hi DavidB,

Regarding your comment,

I must frist comment on the conversion issue.... Is the conversion only for the sake of marriage/your future spouse? If the answer is yes then I would say that this type of conversion may not be correct.

Why do you think that this type of conversion may not be correct?

Yes, I am considering conversion for the sake of marriage and family. I would like to go to church as a family. And, if God bless me with children, I would like for my children to grow up under one faith. I think that religion is something to profound to try to teach to two religions and then let them choose. Adults can do that for children is different.
Luly

Hi KL,

Thank you for the information, and yes, I alredy met his family and did the Greek dance too. So far, everyone has been very sweet and accepted me althought I am not Greek.

Actually, my boy friend's father is Greek and his mother is Canadian. His mother converted to Greek Orthodox.

Maybe, I just have old traditional values and I really love him. He is an angel. And, as long as Jesus and Mary are part of the religion, I think I would be happy.

Luly

Dear All:

First of all, I am not sure if "conversion" is the right word to even use here as RC's, BC's and the big-o Orthodox are all members of the universal Church and, as to all things vital, of the same faith. Perhaps someone can enlighten me here.

(C'mon David, I KNOW you want to tell me again just how important and vital communion with the Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the Latins is.... :p )

As for changing one's affiliation for the sake of a marriage, I agree with our sister Luly that family unity is a very important and valid reason - so long as all of the Rites within the universal Church are equally protected when this happens.

I believe that the Cannon Law speaks to this - once again, perhaps someone can enlighted us on this issue as well.

Yours,

kl

Hi, PRLady, and welcome to The Byzantine Forum!

I'm sure you'll get lots of good answers to your questions but I'd like to briefly comment on two topics.

If you and your fianc�e study the differences and one of you feels called to convert because you believe what the new Church teaches then by all means go ahead and embrace the new Church. But converting from one Church to another only for the sake of a marriage doesn�t really work unless the person actually believes in the teachings of the Church they converted to. Kids are sharp and they tend to pick up on the fact that mommy or daddy doesn�t actually believe what they are teaching them but only teaching it to take the easy way out. What they take away from that is that it is OK to pretend to believe without actually believing. IMHO it would be much better for a spouse not to convert for the sake of the marriage and to agree before marriage which Church the children will be raised in. Then, whatever that decision is, support it by attending that Church as a family and raising the children there. But these are issues best discussed with your pastor and you should take the comments posted here as nothing more than general information.

Regarding the number of Orthodox Churches, they all believe the same thing. In America they came to be organized according to ethnicity by the emigrants who came from all parts of the world. The major difference between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches is the role of the pope.

Admin

Luly honey,

You sound SO in love and SO sweet...your guy is really lucky to have you...but I am sure that he knows that.

Just one observation from a cradle GO who has seen it all! (Ahhh...forty-five years old and married for 22 years and I have to say that I now feel reaaaally over the hill...but wise!! )

Alot of our cradle GO boys whose girls convert don't go to church themselves!! So if you are going to convert, make sure that you make him learn about his religion too at catechism classes, and make sure that you make him take his spirituality seriously too! Okay?

And just one other suggestion. Don't let anyone brow beat you against the beautiful faith and its sacred truths which you are leaving..if you do your research you will see that we have much in common..don't let anyone tell you that we don't...share your RC catechism and be a bridge for understanding and future union of our churches. Then maybe my children and your children will not have to worry so much about the conversion issue when their time comes.

This is a great forum to share in Christian discourse between the two faith traditions. You will learn alot here from our very intellectual men of Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism and Byzantine Catholicism.

God bless you and your intended!

In Christ,
Alice

Dear PRlady,

I would venture a brief explanation and others can give you information that is more precise if you need it. The things I say here will be very general. I am probably not the best person to attempt this.

I don't believe that Orthodox churches refer to themselves as denominations, as in theory they should be united in faith, even if the organizations are separate. The various churches around the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea received the faith through the apostles and early fathers more or less broadly defined through oral tradition.

Eventually, due to cultural differences (among other things) differing terms were used to describe the theology of the faith and there was some question as to the precise nature of Jesus Christ. There were some attempts to hammer out precise theology in the Councils (like Chalcedon) but unfortunately, these issues were so important to the early church leaders that they separated themselves for the sake of the integrity of their beliefs. After all, the church is to teach the truth and if necessary bishops, priests and catechists would die to protect the truth. I think we are finding out that often these disputes were mostly just misunderstandings and the long, slow process of healing these divisions continues.

Of course, there were also major heresies that provoked crises in the church. Most of these died away as movements (they keep cropping up in the public mind) but it was a challenge to keep the faith orthodox.

Some churches were geographically separated and developed unique cultural traditions. The Kerala Christians of India may be the best example.

Finally, the rest is just politics. For instance, when the Turks overran parts of Europe (as well as the Levant) they had effective control over the Patriarch of Constantinople and used the church to interface in some way with the Christian populations under their control. The Sultans had the power to name the Patriarchs and this hurt the credibility of the Patriarchs.

As the Turks were slowly driven out of Europe various nationalities sought to free themselves of the jurisdiction of the Patriarchs and become autonomous. That is a situation you will find today where there are multiple Orthodox churches of Greek-Byzantine heritage that seem identical in every important way and are administered separately.

I hope that this all too brief posting will help you understand the nature of the issue.

Blessings!
Michael, the sinner

Krylos Leader,
I would have to say that I really do agree with this, as the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches are both part of the One True Church, you can not really convert.

No, I do not view it as important and vital to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome or the Patriarch of the Latins. What I do see as important is being in communion with the Pope. I know some people have trouble seperating the offices of the Holy Father but they are different.

I view true othodoxy as being in communion with Rome. As it was in the beginning. Nuff said here.....

Ok, after more thought on the matter, yes I can see this as valid but my answer to this would be to have a discussion between both parties. To decide who is going to leave their church to join the others. The answer is not always that the female must change.

An open and honest discussion is necessary and it may be seen that you can exist in both churches.


David

Dear PRLady,

I really do like Alice's suggestions, especially when she states how important it would be for your future husband to attend Church . . .

Personally, I don't see a heck of a lot of different between the RC's and the Orthodox - I really don't.

I do think it would be good for the two of you to decide on one Church to attend and to raise future children in.

If your friend insists on the Greek Orthodox Church absolutely, I would say - join it, but with the proviso that he attend regularly and put his money where his mouth is!

But you don't have to tell it to him like that . . .

Thank you for sharing your spirituality with us, as well as your personality, on this religious forum.

BTW, are you a brunette?

Alex

Dear Alex,

Are you insinuating that in order to marry a Greek, Luly must be brunette???

I am of 100% Greek extraction and I am blonde and so is my mom!

Hi Alice,
Thank you for your words. You are really sweet. I think you raised a very important issue. If I am willing to make this important change in my life for the sake of marriage and family, He should share an active christian life with me. We talked about it and he asked me if I wanted for both to go to church together which for me shows a positive sign. I'll let you know how everything develops.
Luly

Dear Alice,

Yes, I got the sense you are a blonde!

There are those who say hair colour in both men and women condition (no pun intended) intellectual perspectives.

Do blondes predominate in northern Greece, as they do in some areas of northern Italy?

Alex

Alex and Alice,
You guys are so funny! I am actually a brunette. Ok, yes, well, I went to a Greek wedding years ago, and everyone thought....yes that I was Greek. It was funny! I am actually latina, I am from Puerto Rico. My boyfriend is working on learning Spanish and enjoy everything about my culture. I am really happy that there are no many differences between the RC and the GO, so my boyfriend and I can share our cultures and one church.
I have been reading a lot from the site. Everything very interesting. A lot to digest...I get lost on the history....
God Bless you! Luly

Dear Alice:

Do you mean to say Luly, the PRLady (are your Puerto Rican?), has to become LEGALLY a Greek blonde?

Amado

(P.S. 2 minutes too late; PRLady, I thought so!)

Amado

Oh boy

I see we are in a Friday afternoon mood again

Make the most of it Luly !

I noticed a bit on an earlier page where you asked about the Jesus Prayer and for some unknown reason no-one answered you.

Basically you may have already learnt this without realising that it is a prayer of the Eastern Church.

Lord Jesus Christ , Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner

Just think about this for a while , and say it from time to time - the deeper meaning will probably grow on you and then you will be ready to learn more about it. Just don't rush at things.


Anhelyna - the lopsided Latin

( Ohhhh - sometime folk ,remind me to tell you why Haggis are lopsided too :p )

Angel from Glasgow:


OK, go ahead and educate us on the (Scottish) Haggis.

Particularly, I am interested on how they came to have 3 legs of different lengths!!!

Is it still a delicacy in your neck of the woods, especially when garnished with "tatties" and "neeps?"

Amado