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Dear Luly,

You are Puerto Rican? What a truly rich spiritual culture!

I was there in March. I loved your patronal Madonna, Our Lady of Consolation!

And your many Santos! Our Lady of Montserrat ("Hormigueros") is also very popular.

I can't wait to go back there!

Alex

Dear Amado,

Yes, it is still a delicacy, but you have to "down" it with a good stiff shot of Scotch whiskey!

That's the "ouzo" of Scotland . . .

Don't you just love ethnic traditions?

Yassous!

Magandang Hapon!

Alex

Amado

Oh yes it's still a favourite [ but not with me ] My husband adores haggis with of course mashed tatties and neeps [ OK to those not in the know neeps are turnips - the yellow ones - not the gorgeous little french white and purple ones ] and yes it should be downed with a glass of ' the water of life'.

Now as to the really important factoid :-

Haggis are losided because - are you ready for this ?


they run along the sides of the hills


so the legs on one side of their little furry bodies are


rather longer


than the ones on the other side


OK after telling you that oldie - I'll run away whilst you all groan.

Anhelyna :p

Hi Anhelyna,
Regarding the Jesus Prayer, what about the beads? How many times am I suppose to say the prayer..I mean if..I am suppose to like the Rosary.
I was just thinking about creating a new posting about the prayer.
What does lopsided means?
Luly

Hi Alex,
Yes, I am Puerto Rican. I was born and raised just few miles from San Juan, PR. I moved to Massachusetts 14 years ago, but I go to the island at least once a year. My mom is a VERY strong RC. I haven't told her about my plans because I am a little bit concern about her reaction.
I am glad you enjoy your stay in Puerto Rico
Luly

Luly,

Lopsided means uneven or not symmetrical. In this case, the joke is that the sheep's legs are longer on one side and shorter on the other - lopsided - because they stand on a hill.


As for how many times you pray the Jesus prayer, the answer is really as many times as you can. If you read a book called "The Way of A Pilgrim," you see how the Jesus Prayer is to be prayed over and over and over again until it embeds itself into our hearts, and "prays itself." With the Rosary, you pray it in "sets," either a decade, or five decades or 15 decades at a time. With the Jesus Prayer, there aren't any such neat delineations, although if you have a prayer rope, you and your spiritual father might decide that praying it, say, twice around each day would be a good thing. Or more, or less - or you might not formalize it as a rule at all.

Best,

Sahron

ooooooops Luly - sorry

Let's deal with the last question first - it's the easiest

Lopsided - means leaning to one side - just imagine a sheep [ or goat (sorry Diak about this ) or even a Haggis ] that has it's legs on the left side of it's body a markedly different length from those on the other side - now picture it walking on level ground- now that is lopsided.

Well now you see the problem with haggis [ yes that's the correct plural - one haggis and two or more haggis ]
is that they run around on the hillsides going round the hills not up and down them , so evolution has made them develop with legs of different lengths and so they are lopsided like me - I'm a Latin who is very lopsided towards the East.


Now the earlier questions - much more difficult - and I think Alex , or anyone, would deal with these far better than me.

The Jesus Prayer is known as Prayer of the Heart and is beautifully spoken about [ and therefore to a large extent taught ] in the Book called the Way of the Pilgrim , written by someone who is believed to be an Orthodox Monk or Priest. The aim of praying this prayer is to become someone who prays it all the time , somone who is immersed in the Prayer.

If you do a search on the Forum for either the Jesus Prayer or Prayer of the Heart you will find lots of threads where it has been discussed in the past . It is not something though to rush into, but it is a beautiful prayer and it can become part of your life.

As for beads - well they can be used if you wish - though they are not essential - after all you have 10 fingers and thumbs so using them you can count up to 40 easily [ use the joints of your fingers as beads ]

Many people use a Chotki - try a search for that too - its other name is a prayer rope . I have a beautiful black woollen Chotki and a wooden prayer rope and a Serbian Prayer rope[ which is made from a kind of seed known as Job's Tears ] which have been given as presents to me and all are used for prayer , like my Rosaries.

Now before I have given you too severe a dose of indigestion, I'll leave you with a word of warning - there are wonderful things to learn about the Eastern Churches - both Catholic and Orthodox - don't rush - you have the rest of your life in front of you and the education never stops. Take your time and enjoy it all.

Anhelyna [ whose real name is Angela but I've been adopted by the Ukies here ]

Dear Alex,

This is such a strange twist of a thread Anyway, in response to your question...I am aware of the Northern Italians' coloring being different than their southern counterparts. Ofcourse, this must have alot to do with the countries on their northern borders. It is not, however, the same in Greece. We are actually, quite a mixed people.

First, perhaps this is a little known fact, but the Ancients were actually blonde. Then, ofcourse there are all the invaders and occupiers over the course of Greece's history in different areas of Greece...Genoese, Venetians, Franks,Russians, Turks....

Now a question for you. Since you are so ethnically mixed, which ethnicity do you feel closest to and why?

Alice

Dear Luly,

Excellent advice from Angela and Sharon on the Jesus Prayer!

Using your regular Rosary, you can say the Jesus Prayer on the decades "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner."

On the dividing beads where the "Our Father" is said, you can say this traditional prayer to Our Lady, who gave us Jesus: Most Holy Lady Mother of God save me a sinner!

There are two ways of saying the Jesus Prayer - and we should do both.

The first way is to have a set number of times that we say it, as has been recommended, morning and night.

The Jesus Prayer "grows" on you. Say it fifty times, using your Rosary, at first, morning and night. Then the Holy Spirit will be your teacher, urging your heart to say it more. Listen to your heart - it is where God speaks to you, as you know.

You can take your Rosary with you and say the Jesus Prayer whenever you like in this way as well.

But most people can't go around with the beads in their hands and so there is the second tradition of saying the prayer throughout the day in our minds and hearts.

We can say it before and after we come and go from our homes. We can say it before and after we eat.

Walking, standing or sitting - we can say that prayer.

We can pray for others too. The Serbian tradition with respect to the Jesus Prayer goes like this.

We begin by saying the Jesus Prayer for ourselves and those we wish to pray for:

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner and on _____(names).

We say this once, at the beginning. Then we continue praying for those we mentioned, but instead of reciting their names, we simply say something like "have mercy on me a sinner and on those mentioned."

When you say the Marian Rosary, remember that the Name of Jesus that is in the RC Hail Mary has also been understood by Western Catholic Saints as a form of a Jesus Prayer.

St Francis of Assisi would stop every time he mentioned the Name of Jesus, and then use his tongue to lick the spiritual honey from his lips that he said covers our mouths when we say the Name of Jesus.

There is the old Catholic devotion of the "Jesus Psalter" and the "Litany of the Name of Jesus" that is also for the invocation of the Name of Jesus as we do in the East.

St Leonard of Port-Maurice, the great Saint of the Eucharist, taught his followers the devotion of reciting "My Jesus, Mercy!" between 100 to 1,000 times daily - a form of the Jesus Prayer to be sure!

Fr. Lev Gillet, an Orthodox writer and holy man, would simply pray by using one word "Jesus" and he would do this over every person he met during the day, including on the public transit when he lived in London.

The RC ejaculation "Jesus, Mary, Joseph" is also a form of this type of prayer.

You can also make the Sign of the Cross using the Jesus Prayer in this way:

Bring together the thumb, and last two fingers of your right hand.

Then stretch out your index finger and middle finger, slightly bending the middle finger.

Those two fingers represent the Divine and Human natures of the Lord Jesus.

Then bring those two fingers to your forehead and say, "Lord." This means that Christ is our Divine Lord Who was begotten of the Father.

Then place the fingers on the stomach that represents Christ coming down and becoming Man in the womb of the Virgin Mary and say, "Jesus Christ."

Then move to the right shoulder and say "Son of God" for the Son of God suffered and died for our sake and rose from the dead and ascended to heaven where He sits at the Right Hand of God the Father.

Then move your hand to the left shoulder and say "have mercy on me a sinner." For Christ sent us the Holy Spirit from the Father and poured His merciful Oil of forgiveness over us to heal us of our sins and sanctify us in preparation for His Second Coming when He will place those who resisted His Grace on the left, but those who, like the Wise Virgins, filled their lamps with the Oil of the Grace of the Holy Spirit, on His Right.

God bless!

Alex

Dear Alice,

It would have to be Ukrainian . . .

We spoke more than one language at home, but Ukrainian was the overarching language and identity.

As my aunt once said, "We could never tell any ethnic jokes since we never knew who we might offend!"

I feel at home in any cultural community or Church.

Alex

Dear Slave Lady,

a Haggis ] that has it's legs on the left side of it's body a markedly different length from those on the other side - now picture it walking on level ground- now that is lopsided.

What if they became confused and decided to walk around the hill going the other way?

For my real question

How did you become aware and interested in the Eastern Catholic Church?

For Luly ,

Through prayer our dear one[which I am sure you are doing], the Lord will make sure you are making the right decision. There is such a richness in our faith as we center on our Eucharistic Lord, that as you go through the years, you will find that you will combine traditions in YOUR family, in YOUR domestic church, that make it a whole. I see this change of church not as leaving one or the other, but adding too the fulllness you already have.

We have a number of mixed couples in our church, who are Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic. They find a very comfortable ground between the two in the Greek Catholic Church. This is a wonderful melting pot for many couples between different types of Orthodoxy and Catholicism.

Alice made an excellent suggestion. There can be confussion that needs clarification as you head down this road of exploration. Hold on to what you have learned throughout your life. Don't be afraid to share it and desire to grow in knowledge of the Church as a whole.

Rose

Dear Rose,

Good point - but I would venture to speculate that those Orthodox who have found a home in the Greek Catholic Church belong to cultural groups that already have a strong, representative Eastern Catholic Church.

The Greeks do not and their Eastern Catholics are a small, and maligned minority.

I also think that a big issue here is Luly's strong Roman Catholic family and in Puerto Rico RCism is more than a religion - it is a comprehensive religious-cultural factor that goes to make up one's entire identity.

Eastern Catholicism may not be the way for Luly to go - spiritually it is "Orthodox" and so her RC family might still see her move Eastwards in any way as a kind of betrayal of her heritage.

One thing we haven't considered, not that it's any of our business ), is where Luly's intended might not consider going Westwards.

That would mean the loss of another Orthodox Christian, but they do take enough of ours!

Having been to Puerto Rico twice, I think that the Catholic identity of the people there is very strong and very much intertwined with their national sense of selfhood.

Luly's issue is more complex than I think we first thought.

It's a good thing I asked her about her hair colour!

Alex

Oh Rose dear,

what an unkind thought about the haggis - if they got confused and went in the other direction they would topple off the hillside - and depending how far up they were , and how steep it was - well there could be fatalities . And what would we do without our Haggis ?

As to your other question
Hmm
Well Rose ,I really think you have asked the $1000000 question here.

I've been scratching the little grey cells about this and as far as I am aware - now remember I am a convert to Catholicism as well, I have always been aware that there was 'something' about Icons that drew me. We had one at School [ in my Methodist era] that drew me - Our Mother's Face and the Child she was so lovingly holding - but neither face was as we knew them - they were 'foreign' so to speak. But they did speak to me.

The I became RC and realised that there was another Church in the East - but I only knew of the Russian Orthodox Church - and I realised that this had something to do with the Icon that was in the Lady Chapel at School.

When we moved to Scotland one day I heard that there was a big wedding in the Greek Orthodox Cathedral here [ a well known Greek Family of restaurateurs] - so there were 2 Orthodox Churches - but I knew they weren't Catholic [ to the Orthodox Christians here - sorry guys I didn't know what you were but you weren't Catholic]

I think my exposure to Eastern Catholicism must have started about the time I was browsing on EWTN site and found Anthony's Eastern Catholic Churches section and I became interested from there, and from there found this place - and I've been here since.

Sorry - I suspect all that is rather garbled - I hope it makes sense - in a way I have been searching for this 'something' for a very long time. If I am honest , I think if I were somewhere , where I could manage to get to Liturgy regularly I would by now be petitioning for a change of Rite - I don't count 3 or 4 times a year as regular for those purposes. I love the Liturgy - it speaks to me in a way that the texts of the Mass do not - don't ask me to explain how - I can't - it's just something that I feel. What I understand of the Spirituality has me enthralled - I want to know more about it

Oh there is one other point though -

According to the Declaration of Arbroath the original Scots were from Scythia - and so there is the other link - maybe it's in my blood from my Scots/Welsh Mother :p

Anhelyna

aaaaaaaaargh - please excuse the double post - put it down to [ ssssssssssssssssh now - say it quietly ] the large numbers of grey hairs on my head

In the interest of Cryptozoology, let me point out that the dear little haggis is a smaller cousin of the well known Push-me-pull-you. Like its larger cousin, it has a head on either end, thus obviating the need to turn around when changing directions on the hillside.

Sharon