www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Where are the icons on the iconostasis?

In my interest for the evolution of the iconostasis I realize at some point they had no icons, however I did not know any remained this way since the end of iconoclasm and the triumph of orthodoxy. By God's mercy may I have an explanation for these two images?

Άγι&...;άδα, 1020 AD [img260.imageshack.us]

center front view of the same iconostasis [home.uchicago.edu]

Dear Criostoir,

Christ is risen!

My first thought is that perhaps some renovating is being done in the church, and they're buildling a new iconostas.

Another possibility is that this church (which looks quite old) was built around the iconoclast period, and for some reason they didn't put icons up in it.

It IS strange to see.

God bless,

Karen

Perhaps it's just a pilgrimage Church. Some Churches in Israel look fairly barren as well. Perhaps it is a very poor Church. Many of the icons look in disrepair.

CDL

It appears the church was renovated and that was completed in 1956. It seems to be the only building left standing when they cleared the Agora. I guess this is what it looked like before Icons were put in the spaces to block the view.

ICXC
NIKA

That's not an iconostas: it's called a templon. The templon was a prominent feature in Byzantine churches. The templon consisted of a low barrier with columns and a top beam. Over time, icons were added into the empty spaces between the columns, and thus began the evolution of the iconostas.

Dave

Dear Christoir,

I don't know anything about the church, but the possibility exists that the original icons might have been stolen. I do know that churches in Greece, that were always left open for people to come in and worship, had to be locked starting in and about the 1960's and 70's. What a pity!
Zenovia

Dave is right--go to the monks of New Skete website. They have this style in their church. St. Mark's in Venice has one as well.

John K

XB!

My guess is that this is not a fully-functioning church, but a sort of museum-monument-church.

Around the early 20th Century, a number of these ancient church buildings were taken over by the government and some rather heavy-handed 'restoration' work done in order to 'restore' them to what the authorities imagined was the original look. Explanation follows.

Frescoes: I suspect that the frescoes must have been painted over many times and damaged in multiple earthquakes and renovations. When the 'restorations' were done, the work of many successive generations of painters was stripped off, and then they foudn that the original layer was actually damaged so much that that almost none remained - which is why the walls have so little of the original frescoes there, and the rest was filled up with plain plaster.

Iconostas: There probably was, in later times, a profuse and elaborate carved wooden iconostas with those hideous 19th C Greek icons in the Walt Disney style. The 'restorers' then at some point discover bits of the ancient iconostas of marble, and then commision new carved bits to match the old bits - hence the newish look of most of the iconostas.

Chandeliers: These are obviously copies of period polycandeleons, and the Victorian-period chandeliers originally in the church have been removed.

That's what I suspect, having seen various churches like this in Greece.

Dear John you said:

I say:

I have heard that St. Mark's in Venice does have an iconostasis, but Pope John 23 disapproved. Rather than remove it completely, (because of it's beauty), it was made portable. Now I'm not totally sure about this...my memory can be faulty and frankly I'm too lazy to look it up.

Zenovia

Yeah...no icons on there...that sounds original...really.

The reason there are icons on iconostasis is because of iconoclasm. After the iconoclasim heresy, people started over-doing the icons everywhere in the Church...to make a statement I guess...then it transformed into what we have now.

The Latin Church had a similar iconostasis like this...but was lowered down to communion rail nowadays. The old Churches in Rome...have that.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

The church has been under renovation. It is on the tourist trail in Athens and may have been restored to a certain era when it was realised it had all the basics still there in front of the altar.

St Marks in Venice has a similar arrangement but much more ornate of course.

St Clements in Rome is another example of the same type of arrangement.

ICXC
NIKA

Dave answered the question correctly.
Dave, you get the star sticker. At least this coincides with what I've heard from people who have spent time in Greece on religious pilgrimages.

Your comment reminds of the iconostasis at Saint Paul Greek Orthodox Church in Irvine, CA. To me it looks like a communion rail with icons on top of it.

[Linked Image]

Here's a image of the templon in San Marco in Venice ...

http://www.antiquemapsandprints.com/SCANSB/B-6745.jpg

... no pews!

I have a friend who goes to this parish.

God bless,

Karen