www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Converts From Eastern Catholicism

Daniel,

sorry to hear you are leaving (have left) the Byzantine Catholic Church. Like Anthony, I, too, thought this is rather sudden. Within the last two months (Novemeber 19, to be exact), you identified yourself as a parishioner at St. Nicholas in Fontana. So now you are a catechumen for the Antiochian Orthodox Church with a ROCOR priest as a spiritual director?

Its such a long story I will give you the brief.

First off I dont know where the word "truth" came from, I don�t ever remember saying that recently.

Any way, I have been attending the Byzantine Catholic Church in Fontana for a believe almost 2 1/2 years. Before that I was going to Roman Churches for a while as the very helpful, Anthony here knows from all my questions to EWTN.

One day I started to talk to a friend at my ByzCath church about the papacy and all the issues that follow that, and she agreed with the Orthodox on that and so did a few other Eastern Rite Priest that I talked with about it, (mostly Melkite). My friend gave me to read the "Primacy of Peter" Then I came into Contact with a ROCOR Priest who I started to talk to, he sent me some books, and some things to read as far is Patristic things, started to read some of the Homilies of the Church fathers,
Chrysostom, Augustine, Ambrose, Jerome, ect...
And came to the Historical realization that the
Papacy in the early centuries of the church is not what it claims to be today. Also looking into the Filioque, which is direct contradiction to the scriptural passage, which you all know what I am referring to.

So I've decided to leave the Byzantine Catholic Church. I now attend a Antiochian Orthodox Parish, were I am very happy. My spiritual father is no longer the ROCOR priest because he contacted my parish priest and "handed me" over to the Parish priest.

I have no regret leaving because this is where I am happy and feel at home. I sent my old pastor a letter of leaving the parish and has received it.
I will become a catachumenate in the next month or two (God Willing) and will be received by the mysteries of initation some time between now and when I go to Marine Corps boot camp in June.

In Christ
Daniel

Blessed Father Philotheos, Pray for me in troubled times...

Daniel,

First page of the thread, fifth post...



Logos Teen

Dear Daniel,

First of all, dear brother, those earliest canons were written when Rome and the East were united weren't they? So, the 'heretics' you speak of, and which those canons refer to, had nothing to do with the Roman Catholics.

I am a cradle Orthodox, and I can appreciate your conversion if somehow you have found a warmer, spiritually more edifying, or more comfortable Eastern setting. I cannot appreciate it if it closes your heart and soul to the beauty of God in your fellow Christians around you.

I say this with utmost trepidation, but beware of accepting those who insist that only they have the 'truth'...In doing so, they display 'self love' rather than 'Christian love', and I am truly saddened by those who impose this belief on their fellow Christians of the same apostolic roots.

If I hadn't felt the Holy Spirit loud and clear in Catholic settings, Daniel, I would agree with you...but that is definitely NOT the case. How many of those who insist that they and only they have 'the truth' have even exposed themselves to the traditions of others or have even visited their churches? There is a great cultural divide, and some do not want to take that into consideration. It is fear of 'the other', just as Northern Europeans fear Southern Europeans, or Caucasians fear those of African Ancestry. It is fear of the customs, traditions, and different mind set (mentality) of the other.

I will leave you with this, and it is something which spoke to me from the age of six, when a Catholic friend gave me a statuette of the Blessed Mother... We both honor and venerate the Virgin Mary, the most blessed Mother of God, and in that fact, and with that prayer, we can overcome schism and differences, and unite our common patrimony of 'truth'. It is the wish of the Blessed Mother of God, our Most Holy Lady, Heavenly Queen and Mother of us all, that we would fulfill her son's desire that 'we all be one'.

Daniel, I am glad that you have joined the Antiochan Church...I understand that it has become largely unethnic and is a comfortable setting for converts. Continue to grow in your prayer life and on your path to Heaven...but at the same time, open your heart and also try to be a bridge of LOVE between your former Byzantine Catholic brethren and your new brethren in Orthodoxy. We need people to do that, and I hope that you will be up to that calling very soon.

God bless you.

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Mexican,
But THERE IS! (That according to an Orthodox priest) And here are the reasons he gave:
1. Just look at the CCC and on the entry "who is the minister of baptism".
2. That non-Christians can confer Baptism.
3. That children are not admitted to the Eucharist.
4. That the Holy Bread and Wine of the Eucharist are something beyond the Body and Blood of Christ.
5. That people can receive Holy Communion vicariously.
6. That the anointing with the Holy Myron is a _rite of passage_ at puberty.
7. That Christians marry each other, rather than be married by a priest.
That the priesthood is an ordained man's personal possession.

What do you mean by these two:

4. That the Holy Bread and Wine of the Eucharist are something beyond the Body and Blood of Christ.
5. That people can receive Holy Communion vicariously.

In Christ,
Anthony

Alice,

The Canons refered to Heretics and thouse in
Schism in general some of them didnt list and specific type of Heretical or Schismatic group.

Last tuesday my priest said in the 86 Canons of the Apostles that it says Baptism of Heretics has
no Grace what so ever, no questions asked. Having said that thouse canons would apply to all Heretics of this present age.

Thank you elexie

In Christ
Daniel

Blessed Ambrose of Milkovo, Pray for me in these troubled times!

Note taken,

Thank you Logos

In Christ
Daniel

Dear Daniel,

There are certain 'fanatic' Orthodox who consider other Orthodox heretic too, and that would include you as an Antiochan and me as a Greek Orthodox!

Beware of mind control and hateful and polemic rhetoric wherever you go. Simply do not allow it, for it is not Christian. In doing so, you will be displaying great Christian virtue.

No one can or should play God.

Some belittle Him when they say, in essence, that He died on the cross for only a tiny segment of (fundamentalist) Orthodox. God created nations, and races, and languages and cultures. He knows that the paths will be different. Can we find enough Christian love in our hearts to overcome and understand those differences, or will we perpetuate them?

The fundamentalist of every religion, whether Muslim, Pentecostal, Catholic or Orthodox will ultimately have to answer to Him about their egotistical self centered love...a love that says to He who created our differences, "my way is the ONLY way".

Forgive my little lecture, but it distresses my soul greatly to hear the epithet of 'heretic' brandished about by the fundamentalists, and now by you on this forum that has shown you such love.

Remember, God and His Most Holy Mother perform great miracles for the so called 'heretics', (including Pope John Paul II who is of such great holiness, that if I could acquire even a fragment of his holiness, I would gladly have you call me a 'heretic'!) so who are we to make claims of exclusivity?

Kyrie Eleison!
In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,

Kali Khronya!!

You raise, as always, excellent points.

I have known and continue to pray for converts to both Orthodoxy and Catholicism that are quite strident in their views.

(One such convert to Orthodoxy is now a priest - he ends every conversation with me with the words "And when are you going to put a stop to this nonsense and become Orthodox, Alex?" I tell him I'm already Orthodox - but that really upsets him which is, I suppose, one reason why I continue to answer him that way ).

I think part of the "Convert Attitude" is a need to have things religious presented in more clear-cut and black and white terms. I really do believe that.

Converts often come from ecclesial milieu's where moral or theological issues are often muddled, from their point of view, and they move toward another, more traditional or fundamental church - even though the characteristic of being more fundamental may only reside in the viewpoint of the convert himself or herself.

I sympathize with that but it is clear that the path of such converts will be one where they will change churches a few times and at the drop of a hat.

Rather than see conversion as a personal process involving oneself, they see it as something that resides outwardly - in the way a given church confesses its faith and practices it.

I used to be like that in my younger years.

But ultimately I came to realize that the problem was with me - that I refused to convert myself by myself or engage in the struggle that is neverending when it comes to conforming onself to Christ and living in Him.

No church may ultimately do that for me. I must do that with Christ.

Alex

Being a futrue Orthodox, I am against Ecumenism because its an insult to the Church Fathers who layed down the rules (canons) of the Church, which ecumenism is a direct contradiction and slap in the face to thouse we we speak so much and so higly about.

What is the point of having the Canons if were going to so directly to bend and break them just for union with heretics and schismatics and to have a better looking picture for protestants and catholics so that they wont think were so mean?

The extremeist are not the "Traditionalist" as they are labled but the extremeist are the Ecumenist that would do any thing to be reunited
with Rome and for a undivisioned christianity at the sake of Compromise.

I do agree thouse groups that think Antiochian and Ukrainian and GOA and other Orthodox are heretics are a little bit nuts. I wouldnt dare say that the OCA or GOA or any other Orthodox are devoid of Grace, I would say they are saddly mistaken in there views, but not devoid of Gods Grace.

In Christ
Daniel

"Let there be union but in the way Christ wishes it..." Blessed Father Philotheos

Very well spoken, Alex.

Since the subject of "Convert Mentality" has been broached, I include here a link to an article written several years ago by Father John Garvey of the Albanian Diocese of the OCA who also writes for Commonweal. I hope this is ok with the Adminstrator.


http://www.ocadne.org/others/Garvey.htm

Dear djs,

Coming from you, that truly IS a compliment!!

Thank you!

Alex

Dear Daniel,

Do you mind if I sent along to you anyone I come across who tells me he or she is confused about their spiritual life?

Only with your permission!

Alex