www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Unofficial version of Creed made official

UC,

I think your priest is fibbing. That is the Pittsburgh Metropolia's current English translation of the Creed, down to the "(and the Son)" in parentheses, which we don't use anymore, mostly.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Check this out:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible,
and in one Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God,
the only-begotten,
born of the Father before all ages.
Light of light, true God from true God, begotten,
not made, one in essence with the Father,
through whom all things were made.
For us and for our salvation,
he came down from heaven,
and was incarnate from the Holy Spirit
and the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
He was crucified for us unde Pontius Pilate,
and suffered and was buried.
He rose on the third day according to the scriptures.
He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father;
and he is coming again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord,
the Creator of Life,
who proceeds from the Father.
Together with the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified;
he spoke through the prophets.
In one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I profess one baptism for the remission of sins.
I expect the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Catch any of the differences?
This is the proposed text of the new "translation" for the Ruthenian Metropolia in the USA.

Fr. Deacon Robert,
It is dangerous to speak for the whole of anything in this manner.

I know of at least one parish within the Metropolia of Pittsburgh that does use the filioque.

Lazareno,

"Substance" is changed to "essence"

"Men" is dropped from "For us and for our salvation"

"Mary the Virgin" is changed to "the Virgin Mary"

"Who" is changed to "He" in reference to the Holy Spirit

"Giver" is changed to "Creator"

"And the Son" is removed.

Along with a couple other minor verb tense changes and dropped "ands".

Other than dropping "men" what do you find wrong with the new translation?

Fr. Deacon Lance

By the way, "substance" in the current translation o f the creed is a Latinism that has caused a good deal of controversy with Orthodoxy, which often uses "essence" instead.

And both the Greek and Romanian Orthodox Churches say "for us and for our salvation":

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7062.asp

http://www.romarch.org/eng/orthodoxy.php

So I to would be interested in knowing why you put the quotation marks around "translation".

Yours in Christ,
Jeff

Good point. The Eparchy of Passaic issued a liturgicon in 1997 which suppressed the "filioque". Since then, I've been to the Uniontown pilgrimage a few times, and they were not using it. I assumed that this was "across the board".

Dn. Robert

This is taken from our service book:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible;

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Only-begotten, Begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, Very God of Very God, Begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made:

Who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and was made man;

And was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered and was buried;

And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;

And ascended into heaven, and sitteth at the right hand of the Father;

And He shall come again with glory to judge the quick and the dead, Whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, and Giver of Life, Who proceedeth from the Father, Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified, Who spake by the Prophets;

And I believe in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I acknowledge one Baptism for the remission of sins.

I look for the Resurrection of the dead.

And the Life of the world to come. Amen.

Andrew

Here are the official versions in many languages posted on the official site of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople.

Creed [ec-patr.gr]

Brad

There are only two changes to the existing Ruthenian translation of the Creed that are justified by theology: the final removal of the filioque and the change from �one in substance� to �one in essence�.

The removal of the filioque should have been accomplished at the rescension level by all Byzantine Catholics using the Ruthenian Recension (Ruthenians, Ukrainians, Romanians, Hungarians, Slovaks). [Really, all translations should be done at this level but I know that this is not practical at the present.]

�One in essence� could also be �one in being�. Both are good translations and are much more accurate than �one in substance�. Either has the positive aspect of also being a two syllable word, so it would not affect the flow of the Creed (the current word �substance� is also two syllables).

No other changes are necessary. It is wrong to unnecessarily change texts that people have memorized after 40 years of use.

Of course, the dropping of the word �man� is wrong. It replaces theological clarity with theological confusion as well as imposing the will of the secular feminists in linguistic style upon the Church. I continued to be saddened that our bishops would think that gender neutral language is either necessary or an improvement. I am even more surprised that they would challenge Rome on this matter. It is true that Liturgiam Authenticam is not specifically directed at non-Latins but the principles given do flow from the Second Vatican Council�s call to preserve authentic Liturgy.

Good post. I agree emphatically.

Fr. Deacon Robert

The dropping of "men" anthropoi is the the most offensive. Why are we dropping word from the Creed to satisfy socio-political 'sensitivities'?

Amen!

Precisely how can someone (or even Someone) be "born of the Father"? Talk about gender confusion!

One is begotten by one's father, and born of one's mother.

Incognitus

Dear Andrew,

Your version is the one I know, prefer and like. (Although I will admit that 'he rose again ' doesn't make sense, and in no way has anything to do with the Greek either)

Notice the version on the link Brad provided. It is slightly different, and it is the one we now use...

For years the GOA was criticized for not having a uniform version in English for all its parishes, and now that we do, I wonder if our version is uniform with other Orthodox jurisdictions?!?

I give up! :rolleyes:

Regards,
Alice

I would avoid the phrase "one in being," because God's essence (ousia) is beyond being.