www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Criticizing the Roman Catholic Church

That can't be the only logical conclusion for why I'm not here because that's not why I came here. Although I'm sure no one will believe me because it seems that you all want to see the worst in me.

Let's return to where all of this started. I was trying to figure out what how Eastern Catholics understood papal infallibility and papal supremacy. As I wrote here earlier, I struggle with these issues. I've studied and discussed them with RCs and Orthodox. Let's be honest, it's a tough issue. I'm not the first, nor will I be the last, to struggle with the papal dogmas.

Someone suggested a book that I'd read a few years ago. I responded by saying that I found the book unconvincing in comparison to an Orthodox book I'd read.

I was then accused of trashing the Roman Catholic Church. At that time I had written nothing about Roman Catholicism. I hadn't criticized the new liturgy.

I was offended at being falsely accused of "trashing" the Roman Catholic Church.

A better person than me would have let it go but I didn't and tried to explain myself which only led to more dissension and now everyone's complaining about me.

Dear Jennifer,
No one is complaining about you, most everyone is not even complaining about your ideas/thoughts. The only complaint is the way that you word certain things - generally in regard to the Latin church. Perhaps a more inquisitive tone and less antagonistic tone would help people understand and sympothize with you more. After all, we are all want to see people grow, not be torn down. Tearing down is never the answer, even if somone is completely wrong.

Rather ironically the "war of words" and ways of phrasing ideas is what caused the split in the OO and EO church, and certainly helped the demise of the relations between the EO and RCC. We must all move past this war of words and continue to find comon ground, continue to foster the understanding between the EO and RCC. We MUST talk peacefully and come to agreements so that our worlds may be one again. This talk and relations do start at the "grass roots" level as has been discussd here before. Please, become a part of the peaceful and growing relations that are blosoming here!

In His Name,
Stephen

Dear Jennifer:

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think anyone is "complaining." We just want to know where you are coming from.

When your message is obscured by what appears on its face to be an un-charitable sentiment, the posts like those above result.

As for our view of the papacy - no, you are most certainly not the only one who struggles with it.

I certainly do. I think many others do as well.

Intellectually and employing earthly logic, the whole idea of a mortal human being infallible is absurd. So is a virgin birth and a return to life after clinical death.

Therein lies the point. We, in our humility, cannot pretend to use our puny brains to understand it all fully. We do the best we can and we do whatever we can to get closer to the truth, but the "light unapproachable" remains just that - unapproachable.

Maintaining this humility becomes all the more difficult after three years of legal training and several years of practice. We are simply not trained in our profession to think that way.

In short, though, I personally think it is good to explore and question because only then do we gain a greater appreciation of what the Church teaches and why. Those to take everything on blind faith, IMHO, take the easy way out.

So, by all means continue in your quest, maintaining always the principles of love and charity exhibited by Christ himself. Please also understand that you are not the only one and that we all share your hopes and desires for the Church as a whole.

Yours,

hal

Dear brethern,

I can agree with constructive criticism, however I live in Los Angeles, this is my pain and sorrow in respect to communion, and has caused much anguish among many, I submit them not to cause anger or finger pointing, but to ask for help & prayer from my much loved & respected brethern, it does effect all. I do not submit them in support of Jennifer, but to help & understand me & many others, this is the shepherd of my diocese, Cardinal Roger Mahony, pray for us, pray for the Diocese and Church.

james

PICS

http://www.recongress.org/2004/images/closing/MVC-337S.htm

ARTICLE

http://www.the-tidings.com/2004/0910/liturgy.htm

Dear Friends

May I make another plea ?

Please could we draw this thread to a swift close and bury its remains - so much hot air has blown around that I really think the time has come to allow it to settle

Anhelyna

My dear Anhelyna,

Yes we can close the thread, but we cannot close our minds and eyes. This is my situation and most likely does not represent the whole Church, I ask for prayers and understanding, not condemnation.

james, still a loving Latin brother

Jennifer, we are a little strange, but don't call us weird. Although the Ukrainians are a bit kinky - or so I've heard.

Dear Charles,

The Ukrainians figured out how to make superb dark chocolate that is Lenten...for that alone..respect is due

Gaudior, amused

Talk about wierd.

James I agree - I understand many of the problems of the RC Church in the US . We have our own here - I have a Pastor who says that the new GIRMS do not apply as there is no approved translation for the UK - now I am incensed about that - but I don't see the sense of discussing it here.

No one denies there are problems - but there are ways of discussing them - you do not get your point over by continuously hitting someone over the head.

Perhaps after this has died down a new thread with specific criticisms posted one at a time - framed for discussion would work - but it won't work if they are posted in a confrontational format.

I still feel that this particular thread is waaaaaaay past its sell by date

Anhelyna,

You guys have sell by dates ? I must ask my brother-in-law who is from Wales, & talk about being a conservative,yipes......

james

Okay, I've let this go on long enough. There are already hurt feelings enough to last a life time.

This is not a Roman Catholic board, it is a board speficially for discussing issues related to the Byzantine tradition of Christianity. Let's try to keep our discussions in that field. Let's also remember that we followers of Christ and attempt, as much as possible, to maintain an irenic spirit.

This is not to suggest that issues of contention may not be discussed, for they certainly may be raised and addressed. But when concern for the feelings of others is not evidenced in the post we run into problems and that's when I will step in.

Fr. Deacon Edward, moderator