www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Criticizing the Roman Catholic Church

Dear Soma,

As long as religion isn't perceived as a "psycho-somatic" thing . . .

Om mane padme hum!

Alex

Hutsulko Xeniju!
Ya tobi na trembiti,
Najzvuchnishi u sviti,
Pro lubov rozkazhu.

Dusha strazhdaje... (etc. etc.)

Jennifer,
I don't think that members complain to the moderator simply because you've criticized the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church , but merely because of the way you criticized....period.
If you were to criticize the Greek Orthodox or any other Church as you did, I would certainly complain as well.

In Christ,
Brad

Jennifer, just don't criticize the Ukrainians. I think the 13th tribe of Israel, btw, was Rusyn. I, too, agree that I don't find the current Latin Mass very uplifting - and this is from someone who plays for 4 of them every Sunday. But the Latin Rite didn't seem to me to approach the Eastern Rites for richness and beauty before Vatican II, so I can't imagine that it could afterwards, either. That's a really different mindset from the East to begin with.

Byz,

It doesn't help that most of our Churches still have kneelers. Some BC Churches I've seen and/or heard of out Roman the Romans in many respects. I pray for the day when we will all trust God to lead us and not be fearful of following the leading.

BTW I've also seen American Orthodox Churches with kneelers. Very confusing to this newer convert if you don't mind me saying so.

dan l

Jennifer.

I think the matter is:
We all are Catholics. Some are Eastern and some are Western. But we all share the same faith.
The important thing in Catholic Church is that we are one Church even with our differences.
It doesn�t matter if the Divine Liturgy of S.John Chrisostomos is more or less beautiful than the Holy Sacrifice of Mass. The important is that Jesus is present in the Eucharistic Altar of both.
Rites are external symbols, Faith and Union is what matters.
Even twins brothers (like Eastern and Western Churches) are not equal, but the participate in of the same body (The Catholic Church).
I saw you answer to the Administrator that you�re Western Catholic. I don�t think so. Unless you attend a RCC you�re not Western, but Eastern Cathiolic. So, be PROUD of being a Eastern Catholic, because it doesn�t matter the rite, what matter is the Catholicity of the Church.

God bless you, my Eastern Sister.

Nelson Montilhia.

Great!

My favorite subject, kneelers and pews!

I have started a mini-campagn to get rid of pews in the Roman church, with limited success. I know that's hard to believe but it's true, some people just don't want to discuss it!

I visited an ACROD parish a few weeks ago, the only one in metro Chicago. I have been looking forward to that trip for a long time because my own parish is also from the Carpatho-Rusyn tradition and I wanted to compare notes.

To be honest, the parish was every bit as latinized an Eastern church as I had ever encountered. I didn't really know what to expect, but among other things they definately knew how to use the kneelers.

We have a lot more in common than I would have guessed.

Jennifer,

It's not what you say it's how you say it. There are ways to be critical without tearing down or hurting others. Many here are Latin Rite Catholics and they love their Church and the Liturgy she uses. Many here are Eastern Catholics who have been hurt by the Latin Rite Church and her relationship with the Eastern Catholic Churches. But there is still a way to discuss this in charity and not with rancor and ire.

Fr. Deacon Edward

Jennifer,

Nothing is objectionable in this paragraph, in my opinion. I think you've done a fair job of summing it up.

On this forum, my pet peeve is when a traditional Western practice, like the Rosary or Stations of the Cross, is trashed and dismissed by Easterners as illegitimate or inferior expressions of the True Faith.

I don't have a problem when people, Eastern or Western, speak truthfully about the monolithic disabilities which are ravaging the modern-day Roman Catholic Church.

Logos Teen

Dear Teen Logo,

The Rosary and Stations are actually Eastern devotions that the RC's adopted from their representatives in the Christian East.

I think those representatives were called . . .crusaders (?)



Alex

Thank you.

BTW, Nelson, I am canonically a Roman Catholic although I've been attending Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches for some time.

Dear Teen Logo and Xenia, Esq.,

That's all peachy keen . . .

But the Eastern Churches have LOTS of problems and I would hate to think that we perceived the Roman Church as having flaws while we, on the other hand . . .

You know . . .

Alex

But don't you think one of the problems in the Eastern Churches is this kind 'we're really just Catholics with a funny Mass' thing? For example, I attended a Byzantine Catholic parish and was asked by a nice little old lady if I was Eastern Catholic. I told her that I was a Roman Catholic and she starts telling me, like she's apologizing, that her church is just like the Roman Catholic Church with the pope and everything. I'm sure the little old lady had been told by well-meaning Roman Catholics that her church wasn't Catholic and that's why she felt like she had to defend it to me.

At another Eastern Catholic Church, I was asked by a little old man if I was an Eastern Catholic. When I told him no, he said something to the effect of 'that's too bad, we need more people here' and walked away from me. It was obvious that he never considered the possibility that a Roman Catholic would join his mission.

These attitidues IMHO are a symptom of a 'stepchild' complex.

What you should be doing is evangelizing Roman Catholics. Teaching them about the other lung of the Church and dealing honestly with the questions that come from Catholics first encounter with an ancient liturgy. The TLM people aren't afraid of being criticial of current RC practices and they remain fully in communion with Rome. I think the difference is that they don't feel like 'stepchildren.'

Some parishes have gotten over that, or are vigorously working at it.

I try to approach everyone I can ascertain is newly visiting us, this week it was too hard because we had so many!

One Sunday just a few weeks ago I approached a middle aged traditional Latin (her mantilla was a dead giveaway) woman I had seen in the temple and was lingering outside, I welcomed her and tried to strike up a conversation! I think she had been drawn to us because of the new radio show.

She gave me the a thorough dressing down. She was disgusted. She exclaimed that she had thought this was a real Catholic church! And now she had to find another church to take communion in and it was getting late!

She lectured me about the Filioque, and she criticized several other aspects of our liturgy including our that fact that we would not kneel.

The tirade went on for (what seemed like) twenty minutes as I endured this onslaught and tried to remain calm. She didn't appreciate my explanations, even telling me that what I said had just been explained to her by someone else and she didn't believe them either!

In fact, the similarity of our explanations must have startled her, she said to me: "Who told you all of that, that priest?!?!"

I have to really hand it to my Ruthenian brothers and sisters who may have put up with that crap all of their lives. After several generations of attitudes like that, it is no wonder some people had developed a stepchild complex.

I would like to make another comment though, I don't think that the Eastern Catholic churches should focus on drawing in dissaffected Latins. They should aggressively proselytise among Protestants, atheists and the unchurched of all backgrounds.

The Eastern Churches have a great gift to share, we should develop our evangelizing skills.

Michael

Michael,

I think we are fairly evangelical at Annunciation. There's much more to be done. I'm looking forward to it. So, the lady in the mantilla was the one who was so critical. I was very kind to her but we didn't get into any serious conversation. Too bad, I would have enjoyed it. I told her I appreciated her mantilla and hoped that more women would start wearing them. As it turned out, I guess, her piety was less than skin deep. Too bad.

Dan L