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Dear Memo,

Byzantine theology of Theosis does see a participation of and renewal in all of nature in Christ.

This does tend to contrast with previous RC thought on the subject, but then the West was alienated from the Patristic theology in this regard for centuries.

Orthodox Patriarchs in the East have been among the first to take a true leadership role in the fight to preserve the environment. It was His All-Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew of New Rome who was the first to establish an actual liturgical feast dedicated to the environment (September 1) and he, and others, have done much to increase awareness of environmental issues, especially within the countries of the former soviet bloc (Chornobyl, Black Sea pollution etc.).

The Byzantine-Slavic tradition especially has a very warm relationship to nature and to animals.

On Nativity Eve, for example, it is the animals who get to partake of the Holy Supper first and ahead of everyone else.

It is a way to pay tribute to them as the first to greet our Saviour Who was placed in a manger with them.

This isn't mere sentimentalism. It is a fact.

I grew up among bee-hives, out in nature. I have yet to meet someone with a solid relationship to nature who is an atheist.

In essence, atheism is an urban phenomenon where people are essentially cut off from nature.

Alex

Memo,

How aren't animals rational? In my experience, animals have wonderful reasoning abilities. And my dog has nightmares--so obviously he has an imagination.

In Christ,

anastasios

I've been reading all your posts after reviewing Kallistos Ware's "The Orthodox Church" again. I read it several years ago but now I'm reading it again with new eyes.

I love the chapters on the cosmic redemption of all things in Christ. C.S. Lewis also has wonderful speculations that, in his opinion, everything in this life that has meaning vis a vis association with humanity will be carried over into eternity. I certainly have no idea exactly what will and will not be in the Heavenly kingdom but I have a sneaking suspicion that nature, transformed and glorified, will be there with the rest of us.

I have seen the wisdom of God so often in the animal companions I have known. No matter how much I love them, God must love them even more. He made them.

Unfortunately the Western Church has forgotten much of this. A renewal in our patristic roots is very much needed.

Khrystyna

Oh, and I meant to offer that Rev. Andrew Linzey, an Anglican priest, has written some wonderful books about this subject. One is a lovely book of prayers called "Love the Animals" that contains some beautiful prayers including those of St. Basil and other Eastern sources.

I have to admit that I find a much more positive view regarding creation in the Christian East than has sometimes been put forth in the West. Another reason I've begun exploring Eastern Christianity.

Khrystyna, who could pontificate on this subject for hours but out of respect will spare all of you :rolleyes:

Dear Khrystyna,

Non-pontificating is fine with us. I'm not sure a lady Pope would get a fair hearing here, even with a Ukrainian name. :p

To get back to the thread subject, I think you short change the Western Church's appreciation of animals. Many parishes have a blessing of the animals on St. Francis' day in October.

There is the famous legend of St. Francis negotiating with the wolf, in Gubbio if I remember correctly. And he also preached to the animals and the birds.

There is also St Anthony preaching to the fish.

And the legends of St. Patrick include the expulsion of the snakes from Ireland.

Have a Blessed Day!!!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

John,

Point well taken!!

To be sure, St. Francis is a wonderful example, but when looking at some of the cultures of the West I'm not sure that his teaching on creation has been taken as seriously as it should. Spain has a beautiful culture but do you think St. Francis would attend a bullfight? It's a bit of a scandal to some non-Christians who think that bloodsports should have gone out with the ancient Roman circus.

I am saddened that at many Roman Catholic festivals animals are still used as "prizes". Just last week I was introduced to some beautiful greyhounds rescued from the racetrack who otherwise would have been doomed to die because they no were no longer useful. Gambling and the welfare of animals just don't seem to go together.

Of course, much of this is part of the secular culture, too. Perhaps as more Western Catholics are exposed to more Bible study they will discover the continuous songs of praise of the Creation, especially in the Psalms.

I look forward to a New Creation in which all creatures will live in peace.

Khrystyna

Dear Alex,

Thus speaks the language of the heart. Thank you!

Was it the priest or monk in "The Brothers Karamazov" who offered the beautiful admonition to "Love all God's creation, the whole of it and every grain of sand. Love every leaf, every ray of God's light! Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things ... and you will at last come to love the whole world with an abiding, universal love. Love the animals: God has given the the rudiments of thought and untroubled joy. Do not, therefore, trouble it, do not torture them, do not deprive them of their joy, do not go against God's intent."

Dear Khrystyna,

Yes, I have two of Linzey's books and his prayerbook especially helped me get through the loss of my Pomeranian, "Poncie."

On the morning following his death, I prepared to go to work as usual.

It felt so strange that he wasn't there for our daily routine . . .

And then I heard him barking. It was so unmistakeable that I shouted to my wife, but she told me it was my grief that caused me to hear that.

And yet, I've spoken with veterinarians who have told me similar stories with their patients - and also with themselves and their experiences with their own pet-companions.

One even wrote a book on this and suggests that it isn't a figment of one's grieving imagination, but something else . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,

Of course I should have known that Linzey's books would be a part of your library. I, too, love the prayers and pray them often before turning in every evening.

Your relationship with your beloved Poncie makes me achingly remember a beautiful cinnamon colored Chow named Max who was one of the dearest animal companions I ever had the privilege to share my life with. Remembering his loyalty, affection and deep trust in me will be engraved on my soul forever.

When we lost him was one of the few times I ever saw my husband cry and I grieved over him for a long, long time.

I have to admit that I was very disappointed in the new Catholic Catechism's statement on human/animal relations. I think they could have done much better. I give, as I can, to various organizations concerning animal and environmental welfare, in addition to human needs. As far as I'm concerned, we are ALL in this together on planet earth.

Khrystyna, grateful for all the wisdom expressed on this thread.

Dear Khrystyna,

Yes, the grieving period over the loss of a pet-companion can be even more traumatic than over the loss of a human-companion!

When we lost our Samoyed dog, Azor, I lost the power to speak for several days (my family said it was really a blessing . . .).

Samoyeds are white Siberian dogs. I felt that since so many Ukrainians had gone to Siberia, the breed was practically Ukrainian anyway . . .

"Samoyed" means, literally, "To eat oneself."

These dogs, when very hungry, would isolate the weaker dogs in the pack for dinner . . .

Alex

Ah, but that also puts you in the company of the noble Zechariah!

How interesting to learn the etymology of the name "Samoyed". They are very beautiful dogs. I've always loved the northern breeds, the Huskies, Malamutes, etc. (although no more so than the happily wagging "generic" dog at the local animal shelter).

I'm so happy to have found a forum where there are other Christians who appreciate God's animal creation. The bond between human and animals is such a beautiful gift.

Khrystyna

Dear Khrystyna,

Yes, I love all people.

But it is my dog that I hug and kiss the most!

Alex

Alex ,

What ever would "she who must be obeyed' say to this ?

Anhelyna

Dear friends in Christ,

This is a great discussion! Here are some thoughts I had while reading the posts:

In the prophet Jonah, chapter 3, God commands that humans AND animals wear sackcloth to demonstrate their repentance. Does this mean animals can repent?

Also, the Mosaic Law in the OT says that if a animal kills a human being, it must be executed ust like any other murderer.

Do these two examples show that animals have a moral sense? If so, could it be that some animals go to heaven and some to hell? (I'm thinking of a mean German shepherd that nearly bit the face of my childhood bestfriend.)

Also, the Revelation of St John describes "the four beasts" in Heaven, and the prophet Isaiah speaks of how in heaven the wolf and the lamb will eat together in peace. Moreover, in heaven the lion will eat straw like an ox (Isa 62:25).

My college roommate and I used to debate on whether animals could talk before the fall and will be able to talk after the Second Coming. He pointed to the serpent's ability to speak in the garden. Apparently Adam and Eve didn't think it was odd for an animal to speak with them. Maybe they all did. That's how Satan tricked them.

Anyway it's food for thought.

love in Christ,
Marshall

PS: I also love how might war horses in Tolkien's Lord of the Rings also receive grand burials, since they served their masters so well. Also, Gandalf's horse Shadowfax seems to be very aware of situations and communication.

Dear Anhelyna,

I just tell her I have TWO furry creatures sleeping with me now . . .

Alex