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Dear Christine,

Lutherans can be fun too!

The High Church Lutherans, such as the Swedish Lutherans, are as Catholic as all get out!

I have a friend who was a former Episcopal minister, but who became Orthodox, along with his parish.

The thing is that they are Western Rite Orthodox in the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese.

Their parish worships with a revised Book of Common Prayer, has Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, and processions with a statue of Our Lady of Walsingham. He also has a shrine with an icon of St Charles the Royal Martyr.

So he has the best of both worlds!

Alex

Alex,

Indeed he does have the best of both worlds! And of course you are aware of those Anglican/Episcopal parishes who made the same journey to Rome. There is a parish in Texas, a breathtakingly beautiful church that celebrates an approved Anglican rite liturgy.

And that is why I have to (respectfully, of course) contend with some folks here who are of the mind that east is east and west is west ... the good thing about my Episcopal sojourn was that it exposed me to a church body that HAS been influenced by East and West. It was as natural to see icons as it was to see statues in some Episcopal churches and of course the liturgy was strongly influenced, as you state so well, by both Orthodox and Roman components. I still use some of the beautiful prayers of the Book of Common Prayer in my own prayer life and the translation of the Phos Hilaron in the Lutheran Book of Worship is absolutely lovely. But liturgy and traditions can become a danger if they are relied on in and of themselves. One thing I learned very quickly in my Episcopal sojourn was that where Rome has sometimes become downright legalistic with its definition of transubstantiation, trying to find two Episcopalians who could agree on the "symbolic" or "actual" presence of Christ in the Eucharist was near impossible. Too much freedom isn't always a good thing, either. And then there was the parishioner at an Episcopal parish in Washington, D.C. who was an avowed agnostic but was not going to let that keep him from church because he just loved the "music, smells and bells" !!

We should all be rooted in our respective traditions. But the wider tradition, going back to the very early centuries of the Church, has its own treasures to offer because, ultimately, we are not united by any "tradition" but our common baptismal roots in Jesus Christ.

Still honored to be a part of this forum of deeply reverent and thinking Christians and in being

Khrystyna

Dear Khrystyna,

You are too wonderful for words!

Alex

And you, most gracious Alex, are much too kind!

Last weekend I had to attend Mass at my Roman parish and do you know what? I felt something was deeply missing and I've been trying to get to the bottom of my feelings. I believe it's the lofty language that I missed at Mass. To be sure, Novus Ordo Masses can be celebrated with much reverence and devotion, but much of the language of the Roman Rite has become too secularized in my view. The language of the Byzantine liturgy seems more to me to be the language of the angels, to use a metaphor and is one of the reasons worship in the Eastern tradition feels more like a meeting of "heaven anad earth."

:rolleyes:

I know myself well enough to realize that I am a person who dares not make a major decision in haste. Past experience has proven to my the folly of doing that. So at the moment I am straddling a spiritual "no man's land", so to speak and it is not an easy place to be, longing for things East AND West.

I see much prayer is needed.

Khrystyna

Dear Krystyna,

You find the Novus Ordo not as beautiful as the Tridentine and Byzantine Liturgies?

Really?

(Out of deference to Steve, I'll keep silent . . .)

Alex

Dear Khrystyna,

You are correct in your take it slow approach. I've been attending a Melkite Church for a year now and I plan on giving myself at least another year before making any decisions about changing from West to East.

So take it slow and enjoy the ride. Whatever your eventual decision it is well worth the growth in grace and understanding that comes from the exposure to God's great gifts in the Churches.

God Bless You in Your Journey,

Terry

Hello Alex!

Oh no, by all means not in ALL cases. But unfortunately the most reverent and beautiful Roman liturgies seem to be available at the older, formerly ethnic, city churches. I realize the heavy burden that pastors of our large suburban parishes face. It's not easy to try to please everyone. But too many Novus Ordo Masses are beginning to sound like pep rallies for Jesus. The lack of reverence and blatant liturgical abuse going on in my diocese is very discouraging.

An example: the Director of the Office of Liturgy here, a Jesuit, is considered a very dynamic preacher. I heard him preach at a parish mission that when we pray "Lord, have mercy" it is really not a supplication to God to have MERCY on his people but an exclamation of awe and praise which is often used in Black worship as a response to the preacher. Yes, he is African American and I don't deny that that tradition has its own gifts but what he saying is liturgically dishonest for a Catholic Christian.

Last time he presided at Mass at the Cathedral downtown at Communion he encouraged people to "feed on Jesus in your hearts by faith." That's a lovely phrase used in the Methodist tradition but I fear it could further confuse Catholics about the objective meaning of the Real Presence and too many of them are confused these days as it is.

I could go on about the many liturgical and other abuses I see making the rounds of the Roman Rite and it is very discouraging. On the other hand, I am beginning to see a vestige of hope in the many young people, surprisingly, who are longing for reverent and meaningful worship.

As I've opined elsewhere, the Church is called to be first and foremost a worshipping community in which the Kingdom is already present. If that balance is not carefully kept all sorts of strange things begin to happen.

Khrystyna

Dear Terry,

Thanks for your wisdom, that's just what I need to hear. May I ask, were you registered at a parish before you began attending the Melkite Rite and how did you handle that? Did you inform your pastor that you were going to explore another tradition before making any permanent move and would therefore not be attending your former parish? I am feeling guilty on the Sundays that I am not attending Mass at my parish and yet I must attend the Divine Liturgy with somewhat regularity in order to try to discern if that is where I should be. Attending two parishes simultaneously is difficult, to say the least!

Thanks for your input.

Khrystyna

Dear Khrystyna,

One Orthodox theologian once did an analysis of "Lord have mercy" to counter the claim that we are always "asking God" rather than "praising God."

And he basically said that to place ourselves in a state of dependence on God for His continual outpouring of Grace to meet all our needs and to transfigure our sinful nature is one of the greatest acts of adoration one could perform.

I thought that most beautiful and meaningful, even though Chad does think that my tongue is razor sharp. (That really jolted me first thing in the morning - but I forgive him!).

Alex

And he basically said that to place ourselves in a state of dependence on God for His continual outpouring of Grace to meet all our needs and to transfigure our sinful nature is one of the greatest acts of adoration one could perform.

Aha, there you have it! What a beautiful way of verbalizing what my heart has been whispering far too long!

Alex, you are moving me to think deep and hard and it is a most arduous task!

Khrystyna

Dear Khrystyna,

You can contact OrthodoxEast and Chad for a more balanced perspective on me . . .

But thank you!

Alex

Dear Khrystyna,

I sent a post earlier but it appears to have gotten lost in the internet universe. So, I will give it another try.

I was registered at a regular parish, but when I left it was to become more involved with the Traditional Latin Mass. I told our priest that we wished to become more involved with the Latin Mass and that we probably wouldn't be at the parish as much. My wife because she was a nurse who works nights continued going to the parish every other week for early Mass so she could come home and sleep. So we maintained our membership and continued financial support of the parish.

The only trouble with the Latin Mass was the time.
It was at one in the afternoon and so anything we might wish to do on Sunday was down the tubes. In order to remedy this situation, I decided to try out some of the Eastern Catholic churches in the Rochester area. There were two Ukrainian churches (one old and one new calendar) and a Melkite church. We tried all three and the boys and I felt most at ease at the Melkite church, though my wife would have choses the Ukrainian if she had her choice (it was more western oriented and not as exotic to her).

I attended for several months before deciding to become a registered parishioner. Now my boys and I serve at the altar on Sundays and find it a tremendous blessing.

I will admit that the only thing that I mishandled was not letting my previous parish know sooner that I had made the change and to remove our name from the parish rolls.

Yes, I would let your present priest know your intentions and hopefully he will give his blessing for your quest. I didn't stop financial support of my previous parish until I made the choice to become a parishioner in the Melkite church. For awhile, while attending first the Latin Mass and the later the Melkite church, we were giving to both though the bulk went to the parish I was registered with.

I am of Irish descent and my study of history led me to understand that the early Celtic Church was strongly Eastern in theology and to a certain extent liturgically. It is part of the story that St. Patrick when he came to Ireland brought 6 or 7 (I can never remember which) Coptic monks with him. So my immersion into the Melkite Church and it spirituality was a homecoming in a certain sense.

I still have about one more year that I have given myself to study the Eastern Church and to decide whether I wish to become fully Eastern in name and practice. (To be honest, I would love to see the restoration of the Celtic Church, but that isn't going to happen anytime soon. Though it isn't quite as dead as some historians would like to make it out to be.)

Well I hope that you don't mind me sharing a little of my story and I hope that what I had to say may prove useful.

Sl�n agus beannacht. (Irish for goodbye and blessings)

Terry