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#53126 11/02/04 03:17 PM
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Dear Andriju-Kobzar,

Yes, I understand and I'm not disparaging anything you said.

If it was up to me (and my parish of St Nicholas) all those feasts would be abrogated in our Church.

But for many parishes, especially in Ukraine, they are very important.

Yes, they are the result of years of Latinization.

But, and this is where I stop and sit down to listen sympathetically, those feasts have become, for many of our people, part of their spiritual experience of being "Greek-Catholic" as opposed to "Orthodox" (read: "Russian Orthodox").

Even Orthodox Churches in Western Ukraine and Poland have the Sacred Heart devotion, the Eucharistic Suplicatsia, the Stations of the Cross and some others.

Yes, they are not in the spirit of our Rite and traditions.

Yes, to all that.

But put yourself in their position.

If you were a priest (not a Basilian, but a married priest with a beautiful Presbytera!) and were assigned to one of those parishes.

What would you do if the people asked you to continue celebrating those feasts?

I don't know what I would do.

But I'm open to suggestions and would definitely listen to what you and others would have to say.

Patriarch Joseph certainly celebrated those feasts, including Christ the King.

Without making this mean anything, our very Eastern brothers and sisters, the Melkites, have themselves, on their own, accepted the Feast of the Body of Christ and also the Latin feast of St Joseph on March 19th (The Syrians have always celebrated St Joseph's Repose on July 19th).

So if celebrating the Western feasts makes us Latinized, what are we to say about the Melkites?

They cannot be said to be Latinized!

Alex

#53127 11/02/04 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by KO63AP:
Glory to Jesus Christ!

The feast of Christ the King is alive and well in my (Julian calendar) parish.

AFAIK, in the Roman Church this feast is celebrated the last Sunday of Ordinary Time before the start of the Nativity season...
Actually, it is before the start of the pentitential season of Advent.

#53128 11/02/04 04:03 PM
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Dear Father Deacon John,

If you are still speaking to me, is the time you mentioned the beginning of the Church Year in the Latin Church?

Alex

#53129 11/02/04 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Father Deacon John,

If you are still speaking to me, is the time you mentioned the beginning of the Church Year in the Latin Church?

Alex
This year, Advent begins "Year A" in the cycle of totally unrelated scripture readings. biggrin

#53130 11/03/04 03:53 AM
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Even Orthodox Churches in Western Ukraine and Poland have the Sacred Heart devotion, the Eucharistic Suplicatsia, the Stations of the Cross and some others.
I had never heard this before and I have to admit that I find it most interesting, thanks for that tidbit of info Alex.

Would you happen to have any links that have pictures of Orthodox Churches in Poland or the Ukraine with iconography of the Sacred Heart, or the Stations of the Cross?

In Christ,
Aaron

#53131 11/03/04 01:37 PM
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Dear Aaron,

I don't have actual pictures, but relatives have been there and have seen these - as, I understand, has Tony, an Orthodox Christian and seminarian, who posts here.

I do have some Orthodox devotional pamphlets, one with the Stations of the Cross, a prayerbook with the Eucharistic Adoration etc.

The Rosary is now so popular in Russia that the recent "Orthodox Encyclopaedia" published by the Moscow Patriarchate in 2003 has a listing of 15 mysteries, from St Seraphim Zvezdinsky (although they changed them somewhat) with instructions that one is to pray an Our Father and ten Hail Mary's (Rejoice O Theotokos-Virgin) for each.

St Tikhon of Zadonsk was devoted to a form of the Stations of the Cross and had a life-size series of pictures of Christ carrying His Cross to Golgotha set up in his monastic cell.

St Dmitry of Rostov wrote movingly about the Wounded Side and Heart of Christ (as did St Nicholas Cabasilas in his book on the Divine Liturgy, published by St Vladimir's Seminary Press) that one of our Basilian Fathers (Fr. Irenaeus Nazarko, OSBM - not usually given to venerating Orthodox Saints) quoted some of his writings and said, "Truly that one was a Saint who could write so wondrously!!"

Alex

#53132 11/03/04 06:29 PM
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Alex,

Thank you again for following up my question with yet another informative post. smile

I find it very interesting that the Holy Rosary is growing in popularity in the Russian Orthodox Church, mainly because of the fact of how the Russian Orthodox Church is so against a Roman Catholic presence in the motherland.

I do understand that St. Seraphim of Sarov also had a devotion to the rosary.

Would you be able to tell me what the title of the book on the Divine Liturgy that was written by St. Nicholas Casibilas?

In Christ,
Aaron

#53133 11/03/04 07:02 PM
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Dear Arystarcus,

Yes, I think it is "On the Divine Liturgy."

Alex

#53134 11/03/04 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
St Dmitry of Rostov wrote movingly about the Wounded Side and Heart of Christ (as did St Nicholas Cabasilas in his book on the Divine Liturgy, published by St Vladimir's Seminary Press)
This isn't directly related to St. Dmitri or St. Nicholas, or to the Sacred Heart devotion for that matter, but I was informed a while ago that there is one piece of Byzantine hymnography, from Vespers on Great Tuesday, that refers to Christ's heart.

My slothful soul has fallen into sleep, O Christ, my Spouse, and I do not have a lamp shining with the fire of virtues. I have become like the foolish virgins; for, instead of laboring, I have wasted my time. Do not close off Your love and Your heart to me, O Master; but dispel my dark slumber; awaken me that I may enter Your palace with the wise virgins. There the choir of the just shall resound as they sing to You: O Lord, glory to You.

Dave

#53135 11/03/04 07:15 PM
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Yes, I think it is "On the Divine Liturgy."
Thank you kindly Alex. smile

In Christ,
Aaron

#53136 11/03/04 07:41 PM
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Dear Chtec,

Excellent!

The propers for the feast of St John the Theologian also refer to his inclining his head on Christ's Chest and being close to His Heart.

I've come across references to the Wounded Side and Heart of Christ in the Sunday Octoechos (as well as to the heart of the Theotokos!)

St Nicodemos the Hagiorite, in the collection published by the Paulist Press, talks about the role of the heart in Eastern spirituality as well - he actually contradicts the idea that the heart is but a symbol of love only, as presented by St Alphonsus di Liguori!

As we know, St Nicodemos published a number of Western devotional works under different names for the edification of the Orthodox faithful (including St Ignatius' "Spiritual Exercises" and the Spiritual Combat, or Unseen Warfare - later augmented by St Theophan the Recluse).

He was even criticized by the Orthodox Greeks for doing this, bring in "Jesuit" spirituality!

To this day, these works are read on . . . Mount Athos . . .

Alex

#53137 11/03/04 07:45 PM
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Dear Arystarchus,

You are welcome!

Alex

#53138 11/07/04 07:48 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Without making this mean anything, our very Eastern brothers and sisters, the Melkites, have themselves, on their own, accepted the Feast of the Body of Christ and also the Latin feast of St Joseph on March 19th
Alex,

We do take the Feast of the Divine Body on June 10, but we no longer take the Feast of St Joseph on March 19. Although I think it may still be listed in Byzantine Daily Worship that way, it hasn't been observed for several years and doesn't appear in Father Ron Golini's Melkite Synaxarion [rongolini.com] , in Father Peter Boutros' Melkite CyberTypicon [typicon.com] , or in the Eparchial Calendar. Actually, the Feast of the Divine Body doesn't appear in Father Golini's work, but does in the others.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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