www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Are Catholic marriages the only true marriages?

I was talking on another board about it being a sin for a homosexual couple to engage in sex because sex outside of marriage is a sin. Then I was posed the question of what if they were married in a civil ceremony? While I know that a true marriage can never be between a couple of the same sex, I was also questioned as to whether or not heterosexual marriages (other than in the Catholic church) are true marriages. I'm not sure how to answer.

The Catholic Church teaches that the only moral sexual activity is between a man and a woman within the context of marriage. The Church further teaches that while it is not wrong to be homosexual it is wrong to engage in homosexual sexual activity because this activity is against God's plan for mankind. Likewise, the Church teaches that it is also wrong for a man and a woman to engage in sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage. As always, however, the Church's position in these cases is to condemn the sinful activity while loving the sinner.

The Catholic Church recognizes marriages outside the Catholic Church, provided they are conducted in accordance with the regulations of the Christian denomination or other religion in which the man and woman belong. Therefore, the Catholic Church would recognize the marriage of two Baptists (a man and a woman) in accordance with the Baptist Christian denomination or two Jews (or two Bhuddists, etc.).

This is a very condensed answer, but I hope it helps.

Just an added thought. From what I know, the Latin Catholic Church teaches that a sacramental marriage takes place between two baptized persons who are not already sacramentally married. This can occur between two Catholics , two Baptists, two Orthodox, etc as long as the rules governing the intent of the partners and the procedures of the respective Churches are followed. A true sacramental marriage is indissoluable.

The marriage of two non-baptized persons is
non-sacramental and a civil matter. The marriage of a baptized and non-baptized is not considered sacramental although it requires a dispensation from restrictions about non-marriage outside of the Faith for the Catholic party. A marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic baptized Christian, e.g. Orthodox, Baptist, Anglican, etc. also requires a dispensation for the Catholic party. When the dispensations are obtained, the Church witnesses the marriage and it is considered sacramental.

It is the sacramental nature of marriage between Christian persons that involves Latin Church laws in marriage.

I believe that this information is true as far as it goes. If there is misinformation or more information that is relavent, I hope that someone who is more knowledgeable about it will provide it.

I'd like to learn about the practices of the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Orthodox Churches, too. Do Orthodox Churches recognize Latin Catholic marriage as sacramental?

Thanks.

Please do not let errors in written expression impede the thought.

Joy is the infallible sign of the presence of God.

"Do Orthodox Churches recognize Latin Catholic marriage as sacramental?"

Not as such, no. A few general observations:

1. The background is that Orthodoxy doesn't make a definitive statement about whether or not sacramental life exists outside Orthodoxy. From Orthodoxy's point of view, it may or it may not. Therefore, a marriage outside Orthodoxy that purports to be a sacramental marriage will not be definitively "recognized" as such by Orthodoxy.

2. If someone who is previously married converts to Orthodoxy, the previous marriage is filled with sacramental grace and is henceforth recognized as an Orthodox marriage.

3. Traditionally, Orthodox could not marry non-Orthodox. In recent decades, this has been relaxed in many (but not all) Orthodox jurisdictions such that a non-Orthodox Christian may marry an Orthodox, but only if the non-Orthodox party agrees to live an Orthodox family lifestyle and to permit the children to be raised as Orthodox Christians. Despite the widespread relaxation for marriages to non-Orthodox Christians, Orthodox Christians may not marry non-Christians.

4. Orthodox may not marry outside of the Orthodox Church. An Orthodox who marries, for example, in the Roman Catholic Church thereby ceases to be Orthodox (as would be the case if an Orthodox took communion in the Roman Catholic Church).

Brendan

Brendan,

Thank you for the information. The concept of grace filling an non sacramental marriage has a relative in Catholic practice. It is called healing the marriage at it's root, if I have translated the termination properly.
I know that the last two words of the terminology for the healing are "in radice" in Latin.

Please do not let errors in written expression impede the meaning.

Joy is the infallible sign of the presence of God.

Here's a follow up question:

Say a Roman Catholic and a Eastern Catholic are married and the marriage collapses. If the Eastern Catholic converts to the Orthodoxy, is that person able to remarry as a member of the Orthodox church?

Probably, becuase Orthodox will usually extend the second marriage option to ANY circumstance if the marriage happened before one was Orthodox.

anastasios

We have to distinguish here between two situations: (1) married Catholic, divorced before conversion to Orthodoxy, conversion to Orthodoxy and then remarriage in the Orthodox Church and (2) married Catholic, converted to Orthodoxy, divorced after conversion to Orthodoxy and then remarriage in the Orthodox Church.

The first scenario is described by Dustin. If you're not married when you convert to Orthodoxy, I think the practice is that you will be very leniently permitted a second marriage in the Orthodox Church.

The second scenario is slightly different. When you bring a marriage to Orthodoxy and only one person is converting but the other person is a baptized person (like a RC, as in your example), Orthodoxy accepts the marriage as an Orthodox marriage (as would be the case if one married a non-Orthodox baptized Christian -- permitted in many Orthodox jurisdictions these days). If one then subsequently divorces, I'm not so sure that the lenient treatment would apply, and the circumstances would be examined to determine whether a second marriage should be permitted.

Brendan

Interesting thread. All the more interesting to me 'cause I'm singing a wedding later this year where one of the parties is being married for the second time. It's in a Ruthenian Catholic parish, and nobody seems to have raised any eyebrows over the fact that it's fancy, tuxes & gowns, lots of attendants, etc. If we ever did follow the Orthodox practice of quiet (penitential) second weddings, we sure don't seem to be doing it anymore. Maybe anullment means that the second wedding is really the first one, since the first wedding "didn't count."

Go figure.

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

"Maybe anullment means that the second wedding is really the first one, since the first wedding "didn't count."

Sharon --

You've hit the nail on the head, as Stuart has pointed out on the parallel marriage thread.

Or, to be more precise, according to the theology that underlies these particular canons the first wedding failed to produce a sacramental marriage so there is no second marriage. There was a first wedding, and this is the second wedding, but since the first wedding didn't result in a sacramental marriage, this is "Take 2".

Brendan

I would like to see a compromise, myself.

Annullments should be used when one believes/has evidence that there really was a defect in the marriage. A person seeking a marriage after the first one is annulled would be crowned as the first one was not sacramental/valid.

Penitential remarriage would be choice of those whose annullments failed, or those who in conscience knew that their first marriage was valid, and cannot try and have the first annulled. They of course would not be crowned.

Personally I think second marriage after a death of spouse should be by crowning. I've never quite understood the Byzantine idea that a marriage continues forever when Christ said there's no marriage in heaven. Anyone care to elaborate on that for me?

anastasios

Sharon, I think you're right that (at least the Roman Church) sees the "second marriage" as truly being the first marriage.

Truly, the number of decrees of nullity granted by the Church is high in part due to the immorality and spiritual and emotional immaturity of those approaching marriage. Regardless of the impact of "nuclear families" and society, it is still a personal responsibility to take seriously and prayerfully this Holy Mystery and to honor and protect this Holy Mystery.

anastasios, I wonder with your suggested compromise what would be the deterrent for souls to not enter "invalid"/"non-sacramental" marriages? Or, what would encourage souls to enter sacramental marriages as a first and only marriage?

Kelly,

The Second Marriage in the Eastern Church is penitential. When a couple enters into it, they are (or at least were in the past) assigned a penance to do for their human weakness. It used to be very strict, for instance 200 prostrations a day for up to 5 years or so (source: Eve Levin, Sex and Society in the World of the Orthodox Slavs).

Look a little at your question. It's kind of like what Protestants ask me: if you have confession, what makes you actually WANT to stop sinning, if you can just go to confession?

The answer is obviously that we love God, and if we enter into a second marriage we are in a way making it harder on ourselves to be made holy in this life. But the Church sees this imperfect situation as being better than being alone for ever or living in sin--which could be much worse.

In the early church confession could be received once, in public. After that, too bad. The Church saw human weakness and condescended. She did the same with marriage, but later reversed that. It's time to go back to understanding.

anastasios

anastasios, are you suggesting that souls should marry sacramentally, divorce, then remarry pentitentially "on purpose" for love of God? Why create an imperfect situation? Why not marry sacramentally the first time and live a pentitential life, to some degree, as an expression of love and gratitude to God?