www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Russian Cross over an Islamic cresent moon

Has anyone heard of this before. In Russia there is a cross that is over an Islamic moon to symbolize how Russia conquered Islam. If you have does anyone have a picture of it?

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: aRomanCatholic@Work ]

Domes of Terem Palace and the Church of the Deposition of the Robe, the Kremlin, Moscow:

[Linked Image]

http://oldworldrus.com

That is one hot sight...I think we should all take it up. :p

Lest anyone ascribe some divine power to "Russia" in this victory, the symbolism is actually the victory of the Cross -- that is, Christianity -- over Islam.

When did this symbolism first appear, and where? Is it actually linked to an event (and thus considered to be already accomplished), or perhaps meant to be an image of the *ongoing* crushing of Islam which will be only finally achieved at the Parousia?

What was the event or events that made this possible? Does anyone have a link to a webpage?

Dear Friends,

You will forgive this intrusion here to respond to a terribly fascinating question.

The Cross over the Crescent symbol first appeared over the domes of Churches in Russia and Ukraine with the capture of the city of Kazan by Tsar John IV in the sixteenth century.

(I believe that www.byzantines.net [byzantines.net] has a reference to this event).

Later on, the Kozaks used this symbol more and more during the battles with the Turks and Tatars.

It became more popular in iconography, especially in icons of the Holy Protection of the Mother of God where a Greek Cross was placed over the Crescent to recall the Christian victory over Muslim attackers etc.

Later still, the Crescent tended to replace the foot-rest of Christ on Orthodox Crosses, as occurs in one illustrative example that I am aware of at Jordanville.

Modern Iconographers are now portraying an Orthodox Cross over a version of the Crescent which is really the sickle of communism, crushed by the power of Christ.

Originally, however, the crescent was a symbol of the Virgin Mary taken from the imagery of the Book of Revelation of the Woman with the moon under Her feet. The star used by many Muslim countries was likewise a symbol of the Virgin Mary referring to Her crown of 12 stars. In the West, this refers to Mary, the "Star of the Sea."

Both Marian symbols were adopted by Islam.

Alex

Orthodox Catholic,

I like it when you intruded. Do you have pics of any of these Icons etc.?

Thanks!

Dear RC@work,

Actually, pomog.org has an icon of the Protection (small) that shows the Greek Crosses over the Crescents.

Holy Transfiguration monastery has a larger on-line version.

If Jordanville has some pics of their domes on site, one of them would be the three bar Orthodox Cross with the Crescent replacing the Foot-stool of Christ.

I would love to see our churches here place a few Crosses over a communist sickle, especially any Church dedicated to the New Martyrs of the Soviet Yoke.

The Kozak "Sitch" camp on the Dnieper River has been restored and their Protection Church includes the Cross with the Crescent.

Also, that form of iconography known as the "Kozak Protection" depicting Our Lady extending Her mantle of Protection over Kozak leaders and soldiers (such as the miraculous icon at Odessa) also bears such symbolism.

Alex

Glory to God for all things.

The Mongols conquered Rus' in the 13th century. Originally they were pagans. Later them became devout Muslims. Many Orthodox Christians were marytred during their rule. The struggle between Orthodox Russia and Ukraine, on the one hand, against the Mongolian Muslims in Russia and Ukraine and Turkish Muslims in Ukraine, on the other, came to be seen as a religious struggle.

I believe that there is a Cathedral in Kyiv that has a pattern Crescents on the floor. As Christians walk in the church they trample on the symbol of Islam. This trampling also symbolizes the victory of Christianity over Islam.

Most Holy Theotokos of Fatima, save us.
Holy RussOrthCath Martyrs and Confessors, pray for us.

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]

Dear Paul,

Yes, but the crescents were a common decoration on floors of some Byzantine cathedrals that originally symbolized the Church herself with the "Moon at her feet" as in Revelation (a symbolism that also referred to the Theotokos, of course).

Some later writers did describe this as a trampling on the crescent of Islam.

This has deep roots in Orthodox (and Old Testament) tradition. For example, one of the "Latin errors" catalogued in the East was the Latin practice of making the sign of the Cross with one's finger on the floor and then reverencing it with a kiss.

This drove the Orthodox "bananas" as no Cross could be placed on the floor for people to walk on!

The floor was always considered a dirty, unworthy place for anything religious, which is why we also have the tradition of placing a handkerchief or something on the floor when we place our hands down during a prostration.

Our right hand is considered holy because with it we sign overselves with the Cross. We therefore should not place it on the floor, even in Church. The Old Believers use pillows called "Poddruchniky" for prostrations and they even keep spare ones in Church, sometimes placed up against iconostases. Old Believer tradition states that one must always begin prayer by facing the icons with the prayer rope or lestovka in the left hand and the pillow for prostrations placed directly in front on the floor.

With respect to the Crescent as a symbol of Islam, the St Sophia Cathedral of Constantinople, I believe, also has an icon of individuals being condemned to hell.

Among them is depicted Muhammad. Although this Cathedral was turned into a Mosque (but is now a "no-imam's" land), this icon was never destroyed, probably because no one knew who the turbaned fellow amidst the flames was.

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Alex,

Have you any more info on this? I dont' recall seeing this when I was in Constantinople.

On the aside, I've oft toyed with the idea of building a church when I'm back in Singapore and have the money. I want to build an exact replica of some russian church, complete with the huge cross over the crescent on the dome. If any of the Mahometans complain, I'll say I'm just being faithful to the original design!

Just my two kopecks!

Yours in Domino,

Edward

Dear Patriarch Edward!

It is a small representation in a corner of the cathedral, I have it in one of my "coffee-table" books.

I see nothing wrong with the Cross over the Crescent.

However, I think we can also interpret this in terms set out for us by the Book of Revelation where the figure of the Church, depicted by the Cross, has the moon under its feet with no more symbolic meaning than that given in scripture.

Certainly, the tradition is there . . .

Alex

Oh wait,

I just had a blonde moment (I am blonde so I can say that). Do you think in your 'Fundie' minds that Revelation with Mary on top of the moon might be a crushing of Islam? Ummm... Ok, I am sure many other people have thought of this also but what is the churches opinion of the symbolizim of the Moon? I know the Moon probably has nothing to do with Islam. I just wanted to hear what the forum has to say.

Thanks!

Dear RC@work,

Islam was founded in the 7th century A.D.

St John's vision in the Book of Revelation came a few years before that!

The moon under her feet symbolizes her preeminence among all that is created. The 12 Stars symbolize both the 12 tribes of Israel and the 12 apostles. Later exegesis referred to the 12 main virtues of the Mother of God as well.

Later, Christian soldiers and peoples warring with Islamic countries adopted the crescent, but not from the book of Revelation, but as simply a crescent, the symbol of Islam.

Alex

Yes, I have also heard about the Marian symbolism of the crescent moon under the cross. However, if I am not mistaken, I have also heard that the rounded "moon-like" shape at the bottom is also symbolic of an anchor (i.e. the cross is the anchor of our faith (?) -- something like that). However, I am not sure where I heard this, so it may not be based on fact, but only opinion. Anyways, that's my input.

Daniil