www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology byzantine t-shirts

A while back someone asked about t-shirts. Here ya go:

St John Damascene with "no salvation outside the Church" in Arabic along with Arabic Marian hymn:
http://www.tctees.com/category.html?UCIDs=1112719

Also, there's St John Damascene's "three-handed" Mary icon t-shirt:
http://www.tctees.com/category.html?UCIDs=1117460

They also have a nice Guadelupe t-shirt.

love in Christ,
Marshall

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Marshall,

Those teeshirts are produced by a group that teaches the Feenyite heresy - it wouldnot be a good idea to buy from them.

Besides, to reproduce icons on teeshirts is not in line with traditional eastern thought - how does one venerate an image of the Mother of God when it lies across someone's chest?

Just my two cents.

Yours in Domino,

Edward

True, Edward. More pop culture intrusions that don't help my bellicosity.

But Arabic Feeneyites? What the.....?

In IC XC
Samer

One of the T-shirts on this site had the quote "ASSISI A NO-NO!" and it said it had to do with the upcoming meeting of world religions.
What's that all about? I guess I have been out of the loop.

http://www.tctees.com/category.html?UCIDs=760248%7C1101054

Daniil

I don't understand...
Are you trying to say that one cannot have a religious picture on their clothing because someone may be compelled to kiss it?

Mnohaja l'ita!
Faith

I think the T-shirts are a great idea, except:

Besides, to reproduce icons on teeshirts is not in line with traditional eastern thought - how does one venerate an image of the Mother of God when it lies across someone's chest?

Agreed. One shouldn't put icons on stationery (letterheads, envelopes) for about the same reason. Icons shouldn't be printed on things that get spoiled/stained or thrown away. I don't even take church bulletins with icons printed on them if I don't intend to keep them. And when reproducing or mounting paper icons on wood, if an image is damaged in the process and therefore unusable as an icon, I privately burn it. Orthodox custom for unusable/unwanted paper icons. Better still, donate extra/unwanted ones to Orthodox and Byzantine Catholic missions for people who will use them and appreciate them.

http://oldworldrus.com

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: Serge ]

mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

Sorry, I was not aware of the eastern custom, but I do salute you for it. Not only does your practice promote reverency but it also cuts down on kitschy religious paraphernalia.

Serge,

Just curious. What about cardboard signs of Our Lady of Guadelupe, etc. at pro-life protests? What is the eastern position?

love in Christ,
Marshall

Marshall,

Just curious. What about cardboard signs of Our Lady of Guadelupe, etc. at pro-life protests? What is the eastern position?

I don't know an official Eastern position regarding non-Orthodox images, but in practice I do treat Western images like that as equivalent to icons. I would not toss such in the trash if it became unusable but would privately burn it.

When Fr Adrian Rymarenko (Bishop Andrew) started the ROCOR convent of Novo Diveyevo in New York state, in a former Roman Catholic convent building, he found there was a Sacred Heart of Jesus statue. Fr Adrian, who had suffered for his faith in Russia, said of it, "I won't throw Jesus away', and the statue stayed.

http://oldworldrus.com

Dear Maximus,

The tradition that Reader Sergius refers to is also reflected in traditional RC practices like the burning of scapulars once they can no longer be worn.

I always burn mine, but I admit I have sinned in not showing greater respect such sacramentals as I should have.

Alex

Such holy items (all sacramentals) should either be burned (if they are no longer usable), burried (if they are not usable but cannot be burned) or given to those who would appreciate them more. Another possible way is to keep them. I have a very good friend who has a large wooden box overlayed with silver (she picked it up in some turkish bazzar I think) and she puts all her used up sacramentals in this so they can continue to be venerated.

When disposing of the ashes from burning holy objects, the ashes should not be thrown away as they too are holy. Instead it is proper to make little crosses on the door frames of your house with the ashes and it is proper to sprinkle them around your home as one would with Holy Salt or Holy Water.

Joe Zollars

Joe,

Interesting. I think this is a Latin custom we Byzantines should consider adopting.

K.

Thanks, Joe. I have a little cedar box near my icon corner with many of my crosses and medals. Same idea.

Interesting. I think this is a Latin custom we Byzantines should consider adopting.

Kurt: I agree!

Another option for the ashes is to scatter them over some ground where they won't be trampled on.

http://oldworldrus.com

Joe, thanks much for your input. A whole new meaning to "proper disposition" from the religious standpoint.

I really can't add anything here, except to say that the remarks on this very miscellaneous topic have been very interesting.

In IC XC
Samer

[ 02-06-2002: Message edited by: SamB ]

The question of images on articles of clothing is certainly an intriguing one. Would an image of the Lord, or His Holy Mother (or any saint) on a T-shirt actually be considered an 'icon' as we understand it? My general reaction is "no", since it is not there as an icon for veneration or spiritual use.

Buuuuuttttt,....... on the other hand, the innate sense that Byzantines have about 'holy images' causes us to think of them as worthy of respect and I think we can transfer this to the way that WE interpret T-shirt images. If I had my druthers, I'd ruther that the images were not placed there.

I have another issue and that is the one about bumper stickers with the Lord's name on them. I guess it's my Jesuit education, and St. Ignatius Loyola's great veneration of the Lord's name -- incorporated into his Spiritual Exercises (the retreat manual). The propers for St. Ignatius' feast day quote St. Paul: "At the name of Jesus, every knee should bend of those in heaven, on earth and under the earth; and every tongue shall confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father." Further: "All who love Your name shall glory in You for You bless the just man."

So, when I see a bumper sticker with the Lord's name on it, I get riled up. Why, in heaven's name, would one place the Lord on the back (usually dirty) end of an automobile? The disrespect just works my nerves.

Blessings!

+JMJ+

Putting the ashes on the door frames and lintels in the form of little crosses (whether western style or three-bar) harkens back to the jewish passover when the blood of a lamb was put in these places. There are many ways of disposing of these ashes. Sprinkling them over ground that won't be trampled on is a good idea (good luck finding some of this though). Another good way is to retain the ashes in a special container (I keep most of my ashes in a jar on my home altar (sort of the western version of an Icon corner). Another use is to let the priest use them when he comes to bless your home. Such ashes should never be simply thrown away or just thrown out with the other ashes.

Joe Zollars