www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Fasting

[Dear David,
Yes, I know that the Melkites fast during the entire Lenten period.

But in their prayer book, reference is made by Joseph Raya regarding the 40 day paschal or Easter period before Pentecost and that there is "no fast" during this period.

I was just wondering if the Melkites fasted on Wednesdays and Fridays during THAT period.

Alex]

Something this Melkite was wondering about, to be quite honest. Brendan, any idea, yourself?

I certainly have been tempted to break the abstinence today, especially during this period of study while knowing there may be a chance that we don't abstain during this pre-Pentecostal period.

In IC XC
Samer


[This message has been edited by SamB (edited 04-20-2001).]

I can understand fasting on Friday due to Good Friday, but why is there fasting on Wednesday?
God bless, Michael

Dear Michael,

Happy New Sunday, feast of Mar Thoma Sleeha in the Syriac Church.

The Wednesday fast is in commemoration of the betrayal of Our Lord by Judas. Since you understand the Friday fast in terms of Good Friday, think of the Wednesday fast in terms of the Latin "Spy Wednesday" during Holy Week. God bless.

Lax.

Perhaps different!

Please cut millions of Latin Chirstians some slack, guys! We're really doin what we're asked to do by our bishops! And the practices are resulting in some pretty holy people at least among the people I know.

Haven't seen one Latin describe the practices of our Eastern brothers and sisters as severe! Of course they're not; they're different!

Learning by comparison is one thing. Flipping off a cheap shot is another!

Love begins at home with those who dwell in different rooms in the same house! Not less; different!

Please don't let the written expression impede the meaning!

Joy!

>>>Haven't seen one Latin describe the practices of our Eastern brothers and sisters as severe!

I have on numerous occasions.

>>>Of course they're not; they're different!


They were the same until the Latins cut them down continuously. With all due respect, the Latin Church has deviated from the teaching found in the Didache, 80 AD, which mandates fasting on Wed. and Fri. To say that lax vs. strict is an okay variance is in my mind wrong.

anastasios

Dear Fighting Irish!

I join others in prayer for the well being of all of God's Churches and the leaders He has given them. I know from following your postings that you hold the Latin Church deep in your heart and care and concern as do I. Just a couple of thoughts stirred by your posting, though!

1. If you hear heresy, pray and then do something! Talk with the priest, visit the bishop, call the metropolitan, write the patriarch.

2. Your call for prayer however seems to imply that the Latin Church is a sick body as a whole and its members are pitiable! Please forgive me if I misread what you are saying.

I find the Latin Church to be a Church rich in learning, worship, and holiness. The Church I know is vibrantly alive, imperfect, and full of men and women holding different theologcial approaches who come to the table of the Lord together.

That sounds a lot like what the interaction of the Eastern, Oriental and Western Churches in communion with their servant in Rome is predicated to be among our hosts here. Again, please forgive me if my reading is incorrect.

3. It seems to me that God gives the Churches their leadership. It surprises me to hear that you find His selection faulty. He gives us bishops. He is not limited to choosing the bishop from a select category. Traditional and Liberal are our categories, not God's. Perhaps we should just pray for good bishops of God's choosing!

We can disagree with their theological approaches and disapprove of individuals. Despite that, they are the gift of God to each of the Churches even when we don't like their theological leanings or personalities. If we find one teaching heresy or behaving unreasonably beyond the pale, pray and do something!(See #1) Until then we are charged to see them as Christ among us and respect and love them as such.

I do not post to engage in theological or religious political pugilistics with you. I just want share reflections on what you post here about our Latin Catholic home among our hosts!

Please do not let the written expression impede the meaning!

Joy!

Dear Asastasios,

I appreciate what you say. ISTM that if there are or were Latin Catholics here who talk about your fasting or other practices in any but a respectful way, they were behaving in a most inappropriate and unchristian fashion.

With all respect, I must point out that there have been changes in various practices of the Christian Churches since the time described in the Didache. In fact there are Christian Churches which did not exist at that time. I am not sure that change equals wrong.

I don't agree that the substitution of acts of love and penance is somehow more lax than the practices of abstinence and fasting which remain part of our way of life. In fact, I find it more demanding as I am sure you do.

Please do not let the written expression impede the meaning.

Joy!

Dear inawe,

I agree with you totally. I was reflecting on the past Lent the other day, and thinking of how it was relatively easy to follow the dietary laws of the Syrian Church, even in our society, which, at least in University cafeterias, isn't "fast friendly". It wasn't a big deal to follow, in comparison to my efforts at being charitable to people, to trying to deepen my prayer life, and to break with certain sins. True, I have to depend on God for help, but my weak human efforts did better with the fasting. Perhaps I haven't advanced as much as I should've. Pray for me.

Dear inawe,

Please accept my apology. Sometimes my words are unkind or unfair. I need to be more prayerful before posting here.


Amen!

I think the RC Bishops are trying to move away from the concept of giving up certain food at certain times, and toward the idea of Lent as a time to renew and strengthen personal devotion and to increase service to Church and Community.


Christ is Risen!!!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

I think that both inawe and Twolungs are appraoching the reality from different directions.

The ancient Church had a lot of different practices regarding penance (and fasting and abstinence). The generally accepted one involved abstention from meat-products and dairy for the pre-Easter period. (Thus, 'Mardi Gras', 'fat Tuesday' when all the lard and butter was used up.)

Over time, the meatless-Fridays became a norm outside of the 'Lents' (yes, there are four of them) and people fasted and abstained as they could.

As far as I can see, the best approach is to take the traditions and observe them the best one can; i.e., no meat on Wednesdays and Fridays; no meat or dairy during the 4 Lents.

But the absolute best is to seek out one's spiritual father/mother, explain where you're coming from (and let him/her know of your research!!!-- hey claim the 'extra-credit' for your homework) and then go from there.

And always remember: the fasting/abstinence is of minimal value without prayer and liturgical participation.

Blessings!

Dear Friends,

Dr. John has really brought home the true meaning of fasting in our various liturgical Orthodox and Catholic traditions.

I was brought up with the almost paranoid fear of eating this or that during a fasting period.

Yet, no one that I can remember ever prayed more or read the Scriptures or meditated etc.

It became, for me, a very superstitious kind of practice, this abstinence stuff.

Was it Alexander Schmemann who said that bishops had no right to cancel fasting because no physician has the right to deny a patient the medicine he or she needs?

Good works should accompany our fasting, as St John Chrysostom says, and what we deny ourselves should become the relief of the poor.

At the same time, fasting is to give "wings" to our prayer.

"Fasting" must be accompanied by a more intense, heart-felt prayer and almsgiving. This "trinity" of practices is what unites us more closely with the Holy Trinity.

We shouldn't choose one and ignore the others.

Also, someone asked why we fast on Wednesdays?

It is because this marks the beginning of our Lord's Passion when Judas went to betray Him to the elders on the fourth day.

Finally, I don't really see how we may fast at all during the forty day period between Pascha and Pentecost. We don't make prostrations during that time, and we celebrate the Risen Christ among us. It is only when the Bridegroom is taken from us that we are enjoined to fast. Maybe this is just me, but there are Eastern traditions that would agree with this.

For me, as a diabetic, I have learned to suffer deprivations in other ways. Not eating at all can kill me, and I will go when God calls, not when my stupidity may result in premature you know what (Roumanian superstition about mentioning you know what).

God bless,

Alex

1)I have taken the time to write bishops to voice my opinion on things.

2)It is my opinion that the Latin Church does have a sickness, liberalism. Our members ARE to be pitied b/c in alot of parishes throughout the world, we are being lead astray by liberal, modernist, and in some cases, heretical bishops and priests. We are the sheep. We need good sheperds. Of course there are wonderful bishops and priests. The Tridentine Mass is said in every diocese in the country. I have seen resistance by the laity to the modern trends of our Church. But there is a liberal cancer in the Church that needs to be cured.

I welcome any and all prayers for myself, my Church, my family etc. I would be quite prideful if I didn't think I, or my Church needed prayers!

3)Jesus also chose Judas to be an apostle. Should I follow his example? Jesus gave us the Church to be lead by imperfect men. Martin Luther comes to mind. Should Catholics follow that Augustinian monk's example?

4)In God's eyes, there is Truth and unTruth. Am I to belong to a parish that is openly hostile to the Truth which Jesus has established?

5)I agree that bishops are "Christ among us". I'm talking about extreme circumstances here. If a bishop leans to the left, but still holds to Truth, fine. But nobody is required to follow a bishop who is pro-choice(yes, they do exist!), or is in favor a female ordination, or is in favor of artificial birth control.

Yes, our Latin Tradition is beautiful with its Tridentine Mass, its seasonal Liturgies and devotions. I'm just saddened to see what the feminists and liberals are doing to the Church in the name of Vatican II.

Peace to you!



[This message has been edited by fightingIrish (edited 04-23-2001).]

Christ is Risen!

How merciful is Our God! When I became Orthodox some 14 years ago, I found the Wednesday & Friday fast very difficult to do. It seemed so much work to prepare a meal for my wife and our 5 children that it seemed that it was hours before a meal was placed on the table. One day, His Grace Bishop Kallistos (of blessed memory)the Bishop of the Greek Orthodox Diocese of Denver told me to keep it simple--- boiled vegetables, things that were easy to fix---"instead of hours to prepare meals, look meals that cook in a few minutes and use the remaining time better in prayer or doing Alms."

Today, we have so many quick to prepare meals (Uncle Ben's Beans and Rice for example) that took hours in the past now only takes 10 minutes.Look on those grocery shelves and I think you will find that it is easier to fast---God in His wisdom and Mercy has inspired the modern food industry to provide more vegetarian-type quick-to-fix meals that with a salad or fruit give us (and especially our children) wholesome food that quiets the passions and time to pray and do alms.

How wonderous is Our God!

Subdeacon Thomas

[This message has been edited by Thomas (edited 04-24-2001).]