www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology What EWTN really thinks of us

Dear Dolly,

Who took the Lord's Name in vain?

Alex

Dear East:

Wrong again!

Love,
The West

Love that last quote from Incognitus - Brilliant-thank you.


Frankly as your loocal lopsided RC I have to admit I was shocked when I saw this Item as it was sent to me - and I still am.

I really think I have a bruise on my chin where it hit the ground with a resounding thud.

Oh well - what is it I keep saying ??

let the education continue - oh and some folk need it a lot more than others

Anhelyna

[Complementarity doesn't embrace contradiction. Eastern Catholics, no less than western, are obliged to believe all that the Catholic Church teaches, whose Magisterium is centered in Rome.]

So much for the Administrators reply to me that you practice Orthodox theology!

Seems like everybody but you all understand what it means to be 'In Communion With Rome'

OrthoMan

Page 1, 4th post down.

Christine,

I thought he was referring to Alex's clan :rolleyes: .

james

Dear Eastern Catholic friends.

In fact, I see that Eastern Catholic theologians are doing well in establishing a bridge between both Orthodox and Catholics, showing that the "differences" between us are very much a terminological and cultural problem.

But some Orthodox theologians that are more pesimistic, see this Eastern Catholic way as unrealistic. Just as some conservative Catholics who accept Vatican II try to convince the original traditionalists that this last synod, in spite of its general liberalism and the hostile environment toward them, can be interpretaed in the light of tradition. This is very much the feelng of the Orthodox Churches regarding the union with Rome, because there cannot be ambiguous terms or middle ways.

Notice that I'm just exposing both points of view, the possitive one, and the pessmistic one.

But isn't the author right when he says that all Christians in full communion with the Roman See, are obliged to accept all the teachings coming from the Roman Magisterium, specialy those related to the Papacy, as taught by both the Synod of Trent, and the First Vatican Synod?

I would also agree about how our former Patriarchs have exagerated in their representation of Catholic teachings like those of the inherited guilt, the immaculate conception, etc. that are just views influenced by tradition but do not mean a big difference between what East and West teaches.

The Council of Florence was also quite strict about the acceptance by Eastern Christians of the Roman primacy, and other Catholic doctrines.

I am also told that the Catholic Church as a whole, views the 16 (?) Synods that followed the Seven (first) Ecumenical, as Ecumenical Councils equal in status. And Eastern Orthodoxy is often said to be a "less developped" form of Catholicism, because of this.

Well, maybe we're all *bad* Catholics and should be excommunicated. Orthodoxy, here we come!

Andrij

Dear Orthoman,

I agree - the Administrator does have some things to answer for here!

One example that readily comes to mind is how someone like the Administrator can maintain he is Orthodox in communion with Rome and reject Latin indulgences - and yet invite us all to come down to the Uniontown Vidpust!

I've often wondered about what seems to be a lack of doctrinal consistency myself . . .

But we still love the Administrator, don't we?

Alex

Dear Mexican,

Actually, you forgot to include Vatican II!

And Vatican II's document on the Eastern Churches clearly outlines that our Eastern Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are responsible for governing their own Churches.

The Pope's infallibility is framed - and limited - by Scripture and Tradition.

That is why there is nothing the Pope has ever defined or said with respect to faith or morals that we Easterners, following the Fathers and the Bible as we do, didn't know about or practice already.

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ,

Some more seminary stories from an ex-schismatic traditionalist.

When I was in the SSPX seminary in Argentina, the topic of the comparisons between the Latin rite and the Eastern Churches was addressed a few times. The first time was in my liturgy class, that was taught by my spiritual director (yikes!). He said that, since the Latin rite is the rite of the Supreme Pontiff, it is the superior rite of the Church. This of course, was the opinion of most Latin liturgists, such as Fr. Adrian Fortesque, before Vatican II.
The second time, our French rector was describing a trip to Greece as a young man, complaining that the liturgical services in Orthodoxy last for hours, and the faithful get bored and leave because of this. (This is funny, because our services for Christmas; Matins, Midnight Mass, and Lauds, almost lasted five hours to serve, not to mention the seven hour consecration of the seminary church!)
The last time, the same rector gave a sermon praising the Traditional Latin Church, praising its liturgical sobriety and accuracy, as opposed to the decadent and ambiguous Eastern rites.
Most Latin Catholics, and not just the crazy integrists ones, cannot deal with the Eastern Churches. Many are stuck in their own Latin cages where all the definitions and refinements of Latin theology form a rock of stability for them. Eastern Catholics seem to throw a wrench in their fine tuned scolastic machine. Think for example, of St. Thomas Aquinas and the "form, matter, and intent" of the sacrament of priestly ordination. For St. Thomas, the ordination of the priest takes place at the giving of the instuments of the office (the chalice and the paten), since, in all of the other ordinations in the Latin rite traditionally, this was thought to be the case (the porter receives the keys; the subdeacon, the book of the Epistles, etc.) The only problem was, the Latin Church was the only rite that does this. So do the Eastern Churches not have a priesthood since there is no bestowing of instruments? It took to the 1930's under Pope Pius XII to correct this theological opinion, saying that the laying on of hands and the preface make a priest. But the point is, many Latins are very comfortable in their own world, and don't want us to disturb it. I have felt this mentality in many Latin venues.
I don't think this is a greatly wide-spread opinion (the superiority of the Latin rite), but it is probably the de facto mentality of the vast majority of the Latin Church, since they simply do not know we exist. So please continue to pray for the Church

Arturo

Dear Arturo,

Yes, I've read about the view that since the Pope is of the Latin Rite etc.

But what that has to do with anything . . . There is a saying in Polish: Co ma piernig do vitraka? Or "What does a honeycake have to do with an electric fan?"

But there were Popes who were Greek too!

I guess that means they are equal after all!

And you are right.

I find the God-given Byzantine Horologion no problem.

But when you come to the manmade Office of the reform of Pius X (1910) - whoa, lookout!

It is so complicated that one has to begin learning each section from the beginning and slowly - I'm still lost.

And I think the old Latin liturgies can even be longer than the true Eastern liturgies, am I right?

And imagine the Latins thinking their traditions superior to the DIVINE liturgies of the East?

They should imitate our humility . . .

When asked about why the Pope was being commemorated in their Churches, our Ruthenian ancestors meekly replied, "It must be because he has finally rejoined the Orthodox Church!"

Alex

Certainly seems to be a lot of "Latin bashing" going on in this Forum the past couple of days.

It would be nice to see more positive comments about what the Eastern Churches have to offer, rather than these never-ending complaints about the terrible/stupid/clumsy/authoritarian/etc. Latin Rite.

Kinda gives us humble little RCs an inferiority complex, sometimes ...

Dear Dolly,

Well, Arturo wasn't talking about Novus Ordo Catholics.

He was talking about those horrid Tridentinists.

And as soon as we find something positive to say about the "good old days" living with them, we'll be sure and post it here!

Alex

But where does that leave me? I'm neither a Novus Ordo nor a Tridentinist - I love 'em both! (just one of those multiritual types, ya know


Well (said Dollyanna), there must have been *something* good - after all, Christ was just as much present among us then as now!