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#57631 07/01/03 12:53 AM
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Cizinec Offline OP
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Joe and Administrator,

No! Exactly! No!

Admin said
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The introduction of the verses to the Prokimeny and the Alleluia would be enough for a single year. I would never have attempted to accomplish that and singing the Alleluia in the 8 tones all at the same time (that should be a five year project).
No! You don't get what happened. The only thing she did was add one tone to the alleluia and sang the Psalm because it was a special feast day. That's it. No added verses to anything, nothing in Slavonic, just those two things. And it wasn't the congregation that was upset. It was the five members of the choir led by one angry individual. The congregation couldn't sing along because the music was kept from them.

Joe said
Quote
People DO want to sing. They don't want to sing the same-old same-old all the time. Those who developed our chant system had a cure for monotony. My only guess why anyone would want to sing only the same-old same-old is not only fear of change, but the comfort one gets when one has things under their control.
Exactly!

Quote
We took forty years to forget most of our liturgical tradition and chant; it will take a few more to get it back to proper working order.
No!

I did not come into this as a child. I'm not a cradle Byzantine and, believe me, the cradle Byzantines let me know it. I had to read and study and learn. I hadn't been in our churches very long before I was supposed to know how and when to cross myself, what tones to sing, basics of Eastern theology and some knowledge of Ruthenian history. It took about six weeks for me to get comfortable with the basics of the liturgy - in English and parts in Slavonic. For me, it has been a labor of love.

I suffered excommunication from much of my family because I became Catholic. Having to tell my family was made an imperative by my priest. After all, the martyrs suffered more than me and if you can't leave your father and mother to follow Christ . . . These Byzantines had no problem telling me what I had to change.

Now the cradle Byzantines are asked to love their own traditions enough to learn a little of what I had to learn. They are asked to add a couple of tones. They are asked to learn a couple of new songs. They are asked to learn why they do what they do during the liturgy and that we don't have "mass". It's just too hard and too uncomfortable to them.

Where was all this "take your time" and "make it comfortable" reasoning when I came to the Byzantine Catholic Church? Or do you just expect more from your catechumens than your parishioners?

I am not bitter and I would do it time and time again if I had to. I also know a lot of wonderful Byzantine Catholics dedicated to our traditions and to our faith. But for those few who have hijacked our churches and kept our faithful from the fullness of our Church and our traditions, you ask to move slowly so that they will not become angry, upset, or uncomfortable. To them I say this, your ancestors suffered and died for this faith and these traditions and even this liturgy. We owe it to them to understand the sacrifice they made and the tradition for which they sacrificed. It is each individual's responsibility to hold this treasure dear and to ensure that it is passed on to our children and that our children understand what it means, and that it leads them to God. How can you look at a broken ladder and say that you will fix it when the people below are having troubles climbing?

The liturgy needs to be corrected and it needs to be done quickly. I was expected to learn quickly by the memners of this Church. Now they need to stand up and do their part. Does it make them a bit uncomfortable to learn their own traditions?

I am not moved.

#57632 07/01/03 01:12 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Cizinec:
Where was all this "take your time" and "make it comfortable" reasoning when I came to the Byzantine Catholic Church? Or do you just expect more from your catechumens than your parishioners?
Cizinec,

I was talking about the tactical aspect of introducing and learning new music. Every parish is different. Some are stuck in the 50s, some in the 70s, still some in the 80s, and others are already in 2200! Some are celebrating liturgies that are more Orthodox than the Orthodox; others are still geared for a Tridentine Latin High Mass. Some have read all the SVS publications; some are still reading Ligouri pamphlets. Every parish is different. My parish, which has a very supportive pastor, has done every liturgical service under the sun, yet we still haven't learned the entire repertoire of Byzantine chant. We intend to though; and this is the key: we INTEND to and we will.

Converts and former Latins who come to our church are usually more educated about our faith. They are willing to learn. They remind me of Mary at the Annunciation - "Let Your will be done." Cradles sometimes are like Joseph at his Annunciation. He doubted and was tormented by just the thought. He debated with the angelic messenger. The Church doesn't celebrate his Annunciation as a feastday though.

Rejoice and be glad that you are enlightened for you don't want to hide your faith under a bushel-basket.

All this trouble from only five people? eek

Joe

#57633 07/01/03 01:01 PM
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Cizinec Offline OP
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Well, I suppose the church needs those of us pushing really hard for the corrections to offset those dead-set against them. wink

The more I learn and the more I discuss the more I realize I don't know much at all. I wish I knew as much as you guys. I kind of feel like these people are holding some of us back.

Yes, about five people. Usually if the choir does it the people follow. They are refusing and the people are confused.

I wonder why it takes so long to learn a couple of tones, but only a day or two to learn 45 minutes of songs from our favorite popular singers?

#57634 07/01/03 01:51 PM
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Cizinec,

Plato's simile of the cave says it all.

Off to jub-hunting I will go. Have fun.

Cantor Joe Thur

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