www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Help! Confused in a discussion

Well, since the teaching is that we will be united in the uncreated energies of God it follows that we will have greatly expanded horizons. There is no reason to think we will not know each other. In fact, there is every reason to suspect that we will have a far more intimate relationship with each other and with God than is possible here on earth.

For this reason the spiritual bond between all of us will persist after death.

Edward, deacon and sinner

Glory to Jesus Christ!

In light of the current discussion regarding the eternity of marriage, how should we interpret the following passage from Scripture, the text Protestants often rely upon in condeming the Orthodox view?

"But Jesus answered them, 'You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven...'" (Mt. 22.29-30)

In Christ,
Theophilos

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Glory to Him Forever!

I've heard it explained in the sense that the sexual part of marriage will not be in the resurrection. I've also seen where an Orthodox monastic went overboard into error and said that "marriage has no place in the kingdom of God."

I hope some of our more experienced people here will explain it better !

Adam

how does it work then if two widowers marry? is there a spiritual link between both the remarried man and the remarried woman as well as with the the two that have gone on to the Lord before hand? throw kids in.......

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Glory to Him Forever!

Odo, it is important to remember that in the Eastern Churches only the first marriage is considered as sacramental (eternal.) It is for this reason that only the crowning of the couple occurs in the 1st marriage. Although, I'm sure other marriages will have a special bond of friendship, but never like the first marriage .

The church fathers saw the ideal as to remain celibate after a spouse reposed; and it makes sense since only the 1st marriage would extend into eternity .

I hope to avoid that whole issue, by being only being married once .

Adam

Dear Friends,

The Eastern Churches allowed for divorce and remarriage, even before the 1054 split, the date at which some say marked the cessation of church unity.

Up to three sacramental marriages were allowed by the Eastern Churches, usually obtained by Emperors (such as Leo VI). An easier way to annul a marriage was to send one's wife to a monastery (where the saying "Get thee to a nunnery" comes from). Russian Tsars did this and when one received monastic tonsure, that annulled the marriage.

There was a saying in East Slavic lands about the possibility of three marriages though. The first marriage was "from God." The second - "from the people." The third - "from the devil."

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Glory to Him Forever!

Three sacramental marriages, Alex? I thought it was only one and the rest "penitential marriages."

Adam

Dear Adam,

Penitential marriage was designed for those who were given a divorce by the Church and whose former spouses were still alive.

Of course, Rome doesn't allow for divorce - only for annulments . For the life of me, I could never understand the fine distinctions here.

There is no question that when widowed people remarry, they are not undergoing any sort of "penance."

Alex

How are married people linked after death? The first thing I thought of was the following quote. I do understand that Jesus is speaking of the resurrection but he also says much more if we read on... "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven." Pls explain futher this "eternal" bond, it seems at first reading to give the impression that none of the men have anything to do with the women after death

Matthew 22:23-33
23 The same day Sad'ducees came to him, who say that there is no resurrection; and they asked him a question, 24 saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'If a man dies, having no children, his brother must marry the widow, and raise up children for his brother.' 25 Now there were seven brothers among us; the first married, and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother. 26 So too the second and third, down to the seventh. 27 After them all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection, therefore, to which of the seven will she be wife? For they all had her." 29 But Jesus answered them, "You are wrong, because you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living." 33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.

Dear Friends,

Although I don't have the perspective that a learned seminarian, priest or even a Cantor would have, I do think we're doing this "eternity of marriage' thing a bit to death.

Spiritual bonds between people, living and reposed, exist always, as Fr. Deacon Ed has shown with his usual theological forthrightness and Eastern spiritual style.

St.Thomas More, for example, was married twice. I was in the (reconstructed) Church where he attended and where his two wives are interred.

There is a poem written by him to his two wives - of course, one was still alive when he wrote it.

In the poem, he says he doesn't know which wife he loved more - he loves both equally and hopes to spend eternity with them both.

We're overdoing this point, in other words. You should follow my example and keep everything calm and balanced ( ).

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Glory to Him Forever!

Alex,

Thanks! I'm slowly learning the ways of the east . But like I said earlier, my goal is to get married once .

Adam

Dear Adam,

Yes, marriage is a struggle and is quite unlike any date .

It is only for those who can persevere in that struggle.

I sometimes thought "those poor monks." And now I think they have it easy.

As for spiritual bonds, if and when I go, I'll make my heaven interceding for my wife.

I'll insist on it!

Alex

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Glory to Him Forever!

I agree, we are devoting a lot of time to eternal marriage..... So I'll add my last thought on the issue of spiritual bonds for Odo .

The couples in heaven will just not have a sex drive. Look at Adam & Eve in the garden. Adam & Eve before the Fall are a type of marriage in eternity .

Ok, I'm done .

Adam

"Annulment" is really an inaccurate term for what is properly termed a "decree of nullity" (the official name). The former word implies that a sacramental bond existed and was afterwards done away with, which is certainly not the case. The latter implies that there never was a sacrament in the first place, thus a declaration of the nullity/non-existence of the supposed sacrament.

ChristTeen287

Dear ChristTeen,

Whatever the Roman rhetoric, do you not think that the "decrees of nullity" issued in North America are something of a joke?

Are they not often based on psychological reports on which the bishops then act?

If certain conditions were not present in the minds of the bride and groom when they were married etc.

Come on, who is kidding who here?

Alex