www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Are there Pro-Life Orthodox?

Hello Folks!

I found a cool website: "Orthodox Christians for Life." It's a pro-life organization for Orthodox Christians.

Check out www.oclife.org [oclife.org]

In Peace let us pray to the Lord!

spdundas

[This message has been edited by spdundas (edited 06-05-2000).]

[This message has been edited by spdundas (edited 06-05-2000).]

Rusnak,
I find it sad that you believe capitol punishment is ok. The Catholic Church teaches the death penalty can be used but only if it is the only way to protect others, and in this day and age it is not neccesary because we have the facilities to imprison those dangerous individuals.
Please see #2267 in the Catechism of the Catholic church, if you don't have one you can go to New Advent online and find it there.
The Pope also has a book, I think called The Culture of death, it is one of his encyclicals. I can't remember the name for certain right now! It is very good though, I reccomend it.
The death penalty contradicts what pro-life people are trying to accomplish. Killing is never ok, we are not God he will punish all who deserve punishment, we do not need to take revenge, vengences is Gods.
Our sin doesn't change the fact that we are made in the image and likeness of God, this is where our dignity comes from. Yes we should imprison those who have murdered but we do not have to kill them, Christ said to turn the other cheek and to love our enemies, in the case of a murder I believe this means to still show them mercy as much as possible. Mabey they will repent during their life in prison if they are killed that oppurtunity will be gone. If God can forgive we should also. Of course even though forgiven we are still punished, but punishment by means of death is not our right to place on anyone especially when it is not neccesary.
Think about a women who has had an abortion (or several which I see all the time where I work at a pregnancy help center), we all agree this is murder, yet we try and reconcile her to God. There are programs like Project Racheal who's goal this is. Yes someone who commits mass murders is worse of a killer but if God would extend his mercy to both, who are we to not do the same.
Think of Christ's great mercy he showed on earth while he was here, do you think he would be for the death penalty? No, and Christ's mystical body, the Church, today isn't either.
Christ be with you,
Jessica

With regard to abortion, the state of Nebraska (where I live) passed a law forbidding partial-birth abortion last year. It was contested, and the District Court of Appeals ruled the law unconstitutional. The case was argued before the Supreme Court in April, with a ruling expected within the next couple of weeks. It would be a complete shock if the Supreme Court did not agree with the District Court ruling.

Why, then, persist in trying to pass anti-abortion laws that will ultimately be struck down anyway? Why not focus on prayer, fasting, and the conversion of peoples' hearts? The latter work is essential -- every Christian should be engaged in it. But pushing on the political front serves one important purpose. It forces the culture of death, which prefers to work in secrecy and vagueness, to justify itself in judicial rulings, which then become part of the public record.

If you have the stomach for it, I would suggest that you read the full rulings by the various District Courts which have unanimously ruled against partial-birth abortion laws passed by state legislatures. With cold-blooded, clinical logic they describe in detail the various abortion procedures. The reason why partial-birth abortion laws are overturned is because late-term abortions are barely indistinguishable from second trimester ones, and these latter are "constitutionally protected".

These judicial rulings, which are now part of our country's public history, are every bit as graphic as those pictures shown by abortion protestors. I believe that most Americans, even pro-choicers, would be sickened by the grisly sensibilities that underlie them. Sooner or later, the public will become aware of the details of these rulings. And then, one hopes, they will be ashamed.

In Christ,
Steven

>> Why, then, persist in trying to pass anti-abortion laws that will ultimately be struck down anyway? Why not focus on prayer, fasting, and the conversion of peoples' hearts?<<

We concentrate on prayer, fasting and Christian witness of right and law and strive to see that our Judeo-Christian morality is restored as the guidepost of right and wrong in this country. We cannot choose between prayer and good works. Our calling as Christians is to both.

What would happen if Christians simply bowed out from all issues regarding morality? Just who and what morality systems would we be abandoning our lives to?

-Let's not object to China's forced abortion policy, but instead not say anything and keep our prayers to ourselves.

-Let's not object to the restrictions which have made prayer intolerable to public life. Johnny and Sue need to be taught that faith and prayer should be hidden from public view.

-Let's not support Ohio, which is trying to keep the words "With God all things are possible" from being removed from their state flag, because the Good One will never triumph over the Evil One. After all, telling people that God is good is no longer part of our free speech rights and this message is a detriment to our society.

-Let's not support the high school valedictorian who may not mention her faith in God plays an important role in her life.

-Let's not object when public schools in Massachusetts teach the techniques of homosexual activity to high school students. After all, morality is a matter of choice and there is no right or wrong.

The Evil One sits by and hopes that we do nothing and hide our faith from public life. Different people are called to different actions. All are called to prayer but many are also called to action.

One of the main reasons why the pro-life movement is not winning is because it is so divided, based upon personalities and agendas, but it all comes down to pride. We have the National Right to Life Committee (NRLC), the American Life League (ALL), Human Life International (HLI), etc., often times trying to discredit each other. Even HLI is now in the midst of internal struggle which will most likely handicap, if not destroy, it.

In my home town, we have a chapter of NRLC and a chapter of HLI, and both would rather spend time battling each other than the culture of death. For my part, I have ended participating in either chapter.

Then, many within the movement want to link it with other movements which have nothing to do with the right to life. I know many pro-lifers who don't fit the "stereotype": they are atheists, liberal Democrats, pro-life feminists, gays, etc., but it is made quite clear to them that their involvement is not wanted, even when they tried to volunteer their services, so they don't get involved.

We've blown it, and we do need to spend our time now in prayer and fasting for our own prideful faults. The media portrays us as a bunch of right-wing kooks and fanatics, but when we limit ourselves to some people who truly fit that catagory, that's exactly what we are. I highly recommend a site, and its http now escapes me, called "Leftout: The Pro-Life Liberal's Home on the Web". I certainly don't agree with everything the link websites and organizations support, but these are pro-life people who care about the unborn, the infirm, the elderly and the otherwise endangered. Not everyone has to be a Republican to be pro-life, or even a Christian.

Therefore was a single human being created: to teach you that to destroy a single human soul is equivalent to destroying an entire world; and to sustain a single human soul is equivalent to sustaining an entire world.-Talmud

And I tell you the good in us will win. Over all our wickedness, over all the wrongs we have done, we will look back at the pages of written history, and be amazed, and then we will laugh and sing, and the good that is in us, children in their cradles, will have won!

Dear Vasili,

I know that the day will come when God shall allow victory - the prayer you offered is so true. We might not see it, but future generations will. Until that happens, I grieve for the lives so tragically and brutally lost, and what will happen to our "civilization" before the Just and Merciful Hand of God finally covers the sick humanity of this world.

S'Bohom
A Nobody

Baruch HaShem!

"Then Isaac asked the Eternal:'King of the world, when You made the light, You said in Your Torah(Word) that it was good; when You made the expanse of heaven and earth, You said in Your Torah(Word) that they were good; and of every herb You made , and every beast, You said that they were good; but when You made us in Your image, You did not say of us in Your Torah(Word) that humanity was good. Why? Lord? And God answered him:'Because you I have not yet perfected, because through the Torah(Word) you are to perfect yourselves, and to perfect the world. All other things are completed; they cannot grow.But humanity is not complete; you have yet to grow. Then I will call you good.'"

I like your inclusive spirit. Exclusivity will not defeat the satanic evil of abortion. All of us, of whatever dogma and practice, can stand shoulder to shoulder against butchery. United we stand and divided we fall! Keep preaching the message.

Thank you, Vasili