www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Eucharistic devotion among Byzantine Catholics

>>>I have spoken with an RC priest who was into liturgical theology (our university chaplain) and he said that Rome wanted to bring the public blessing with the Chalice into the Mass, but the "liturgical experts" said that would break the "liturgical flow" of the Roman Rite.<<<

That one has me stumped as well. Maybe the "liturgical flow" they speak of is the flow of people out the door right after receiving Communion

Columcille

[This message has been edited by Columcille (edited 06-14-2001).]

Dear Columcille,

It is good that neither you nor I have ever put any store in the adage: Go with the flow!

Alex

Columcille, what flow? You forget that we must all stop to shake hands with our friendly neighborhood pastor(s) at every exit. Has everyone been watching a bit too much Sesame Street lately? I think that's where most in the liturgical comitees come from these days.

In IC XC
Samer

>>>Columcille, what flow? You forget that we must all stop to shake hands with our friendly neighborhood pastor(s) at every exit. <<<

You are aware that in some parishes, they have the OFFICIAL greeter! When I first moved to where I am now, I visited the local church on Sunday. At first I wasn't sure whether it was Catholic or Baptist. Anyway, I'm walking to my pew when I'm suddenly grabbed from behind by the greeter who shook my hand and welcomed me to the "faith community" of St.Thomas More.

I haven't been back since.

Columcille

>>I have spoken with an RC priest who was into liturgical theology (our university chaplain) and he said that Rome wanted to bring the public blessing with the Chalice into the Mass, but the "liturgical experts" said that would break the "liturgical flow" of the Roman Rite.<

�Morons, your bus is leaving!� <- Anybody see the movie �Groundhog�s Day�?

Kurt said:
//In a way, non-communication at Divine Liturgy is a form of Eucharistic adoration without reception.//

To which Joe replied:
Huh? It's more like a form of excommunication. Not what the Holy Father intended.

Excommunication seems to be pressing things. They are free to receive if not in a state of mortal sin, indeed, they SHOULD receive. But if they are in a state of mortal sin then receiving would be a definite problem. In such a situation there would be no problem with adoration of the Eucharist, it would seem.

Dear Ignatius,

You raise yet another important issue that highlights another difference between the Western and Eastern Churches.

For the Christian East, to reverence the Shroud or Epitaphion during HOly Week, to kiss the Book of the Gospels or to consume holy water or eat the Blessed Bread left over from the Eucharist (which is not consecrated, but blessed nevertheless) is all a kind of "spiritual Communion" to borrow from you's guys' terminology .

We are asked to fast and to go to Confession before doing any of the above and not dare to approach the Epitaphion or eat the Blessed Bread or Holy Water while in a state of separation from Christ through sin (what a terrible state to be in!).

It is true that those who feel they cannot go to Communion in our Churches don't go.

But the ancient canons apply to the laity as they do to the priests.

If a lay person cannot go to Communion, he or she must give an answer as to why. To attend the Divine LIturgy and not go to Communion without sufficient reason was reason enough to discipline a priest. The same applied to laity.

Therefore, it is ideally best to confess before daring to approach the Holy Church for the Divine Liturgy.

In former times, when people even had a bad thought, they stayed outside the church until they reconciled with God.

Alex

Dear fellow forum members,

Happy Feastday of the Holy Eucharist!

This morning I decided to make the 45 minute drive to the Melkite parish which I had mentioned in my previous post and attend Divine Liturgy for the feast of the Holy Eucharist. I am very happy that I did.

The associate pastor, who celebrated the liturgy, was very welcoming. The liturgy was in English, which was a relief to me since I know almost no Arabic.
Since it was a weekday liturgy, only four people(including myself) were in attendance. The cantor was in attendance and she sang beautifully.

As for the liturgy itself, a tropar and kondak written by the Melkites were used( see my second posting on this thread to read them). The epistle and Gospel(from Saint John) also were selected specifically for today. The hymn to the Theotokos "It truly is meet.." was also specially written , invoking the protection of the Theotokos on those who partake of the Body and Blood of Our Lord.
At the end of the liturgy, the priest began the dismissal prayer as follows, "May Christ Our true God Who gives us His Body and Blood, through..."
At the end of the liturgy, Father told me to come again. I felt very welcomed there.

After, I spoke with the cantor, who told me that the observance of the Feast of the Holy Eucharist at her parish began with the current pastor, and had not been celebrated by previous pastors.

Thus this feast is not celebrated throughout the entire Melkite Catholic Church.

God bless you all,
Byzantino


[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 06-14-2001).]

Dear Byzantino,

A wonderful post!

One other reason why the Feast of Corpus Christi or the Eucharist as currently celebrated by some Eastern Catholic parishes is a Latinization is precisely that it is conducted on a Thursday.

For the Byzantine Church, the Divine Liturgy as celebrated by the Church and the Mystical Supper are, liturgically, distinct events and actions.

The first Divine Liturgy that was celebrated by the Church was celebrated by St Peter and the Apostles on Pentecost at which time the first Epiclesis, or coming down of the Holy Spirit took place at about 9:00 am.

This is why, to this day, Divine Liturgies in our Church are frequently celebrated at around this morning hour and why there is often said the prayer of Pentecost for the coming of the Holy Spirit just prior to the actual Epiclesis.

Also, and most unfortunately, our Eastern Latinizers (I say this with sadness) saw fit to move the Feast of all Saints of Ukraine to the fourth Sunday after Pentecost, when our Orthodox brothers and sisters celebrate it on the Second Sunday) to make room for feasts taken directly from the Latin Rite Calendar.

As I said earlier, the best devotion to the Holy Eucharist is in being true to the preparations before and heart-felt participation in the Divine Liturgy.

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Columcille:
[B]>>>This also wused to be the case in the Latin Church. The faithful were blessed with the Eucharist as they were about to receive it. (Granted, this is somewhat different than in the Divine Liturgy when the entire congregation is blessed, whether they receive or not.) Personally, I would like to see a return of this tradition<<<

In the Tridentine Mass, the priest makes the sign of the cross with the host in front of the communicant and says: "Corpus Domini nostri Jesu Christi custodiat animam tuam in vitam aeternam, Amen."(May the Body of our Lord, Jesus Christ, keep your soul unto life everlasting).

I, too, would like to see this return in the Novus Ordo.


Dear Columcille,
I know Roman-rite priests(including an entire religious order) who do make the sign of the cross with the Host as they say, "The Body Of Christ" before the communicant in Novus Ordo Missae liturgies.

God bless you,
Byzantino

Dear Byzantino,

I am not certain of where this feast day is celebrated in the Melkite community. The only evidence I have is my church calendar from the bishopric in Beirut. The feast of the Divine Body is listed there, which would seem to indicate that it is celebrated within the Patriarchate overall.

Dear Alex,

I am sorry to hear of these modifications in our calendar. In Syria, Melkites and Orthodox faithful lament these discrepancies and especially wish to celebrate Pascha together (thankfully we've accomplished that in the case of Christmas). Most would prefer to stick to the Julian Calendar. Some of our bishops though would probably answer, "why should we care how our Pascha coincides with the Jewish Passover?; the Old Testament is fullfilled and there is no need to have it affect our days of celebration". I frankly don't like this attitude.

In IC XC
Samer



[This message has been edited by SamB (edited 06-14-2001).]

Dear Samer,

Neither do I!

As I understand it, in Egypt, the Roman Catholic Church there used to follow the Julian Calendar!

Our calendar still has the Latin Feasts on them (the calendars are still published by religious Orders who have an unfortunate Latinist bent).

However, I would be hard-pressed to find a parish, other than the few Basilian ones, who would celebrate these feasts.

The Russian Catholics told Rome that the devotion to the Sacred Heart is contained in the Eastern Devotion to the Name of Jesus and to Christ the Lover of Mankind.

Was it the U.S. Ruthenian Bishops who said something similar when they said the Icon of Christ the Lover of Mankind, holding a book with words of love is equal to the picture of the Sacred Heart of Jesus?

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SamB:
[B]Dear Byzantino,

I am not certain of where this feast day is celebrated in the Melkite community. The only evidence I have is my church calendar from the bishopric in Beirut. The feast of the Divine Body is listed there, which would seem to indicate that it is celebrated within the Patriarchate overall.

Dear SamB,
The cantor with whom I spoke with after the liturgy stated there are Melkite priests who will not celebrate this feast because it happens to be a borrowing from the Roman Catholic Church. She stated though that there are Melkite priests who do still celebrate this feast.
The pastor of the parish where I attend liturgy for the feast of the Divine Body staed that he has celebrated this feast in Lebanon, and that eucharistic processions are very popular there. Since becoming pastor of a parish in the United States, he decided to observe this feast at his parish as well.
I am sure that there are other Melkite parishes- even Ukrainian parishes- in the United States and Canada that have celebrated Divine Liturgy today for the feast of the Holy Eucharist, but I am sure it depends on the decision of the pastor in charge.

God bless you,
Byzantino

see next post...

[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 06-15-2001).]

[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by SamB:
[B]Dear Byzantino,

I am not certain of where this feast day is celebrated in the Melkite community. The only evidence I have is my church calendar from the bishopric in Beirut. The feast of the Divine Body is listed there, which would seem to indicate that it is celebrated within the Patriarchate overall.

Dear SamB,
The cantor with whom I spoke with after the liturgy stated there are Melkite priests who will not celebrate this feast because it happens to be a borrowing from the Roman Catholic Church. She stated though that there are Melkite priests who do still celebrate this feast.
The pastor of the parish where I attend liturgy for the feast of the Divine Body stated that he has celebrated this feast in Lebanon, and that eucharistic processions are very popular there. Since becoming pastor of a parish in the United States, he decided to observe this feast at his parish as well.
I am sure that there are other Melkite parishes- even Ukrainian parishes- in the United States and Canada that have celebrated Divine Liturgy today for the feast of the Holy Eucharist, but I am sure it depends on the decision of the pastor in charge.
I would say that Byzantine Catholic priests who have had a devotion to the Eucharist outside of the Divine Liturgy are more likely to be observing the feast of the Holy Eucharist today.

God bless you,
Byzantino

Dear Byzantino,

Yes, Lebanon certainly would be enthusiastic about such processions. It is very unique because the Maronite influence is predominant (and I certainly wouldn't have it otherwise. The Maronites have no other country but Lebanon that they can call their spiritual home), and as we all know, Latinizations abound in the Maronite Church, but as Dragani has mentioned already at EWTN, they are focusing on their Syriac roots. This is not to say that they previously weren't ardently Syriac. Unlike us, they have no Orthodox counterparts, meaning that their traditions didn't suffer like ours under Rome, and there was no self-hate and fearfullness of their own ways, which in our case were our common ways with the Orthodox (disdain for bearded priests for example). The Maronites, despite Latinizations have always been fanatically devoted to their Syriac heritage and would never cringe from approaching them as being something "too Orthodox"

In IC XC
Samer



[This message has been edited by SamB (edited 06-14-2001).]