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Bless me a sinner, Father Elias!

Thank you for that incredibly beautiful post!!

I have a third order scapular from Rome that has the alternating brown and white stripes, as the first Carmelites in the Holy Land, Greeks originally, had.

It was St Simon Stock who saw the vision of the Mother of God at Aylesford in England and received the Mantle or Scapular.

The fact is that the reason he was praying to Our Lady then was to ask Her help since the English Orders of the Benedictines and the Dominicans (?) had purposed to expel the Carmelites from England on the grounds that it was an Eastern Rite monastic rule!

Alex

Exactly right Alex!

They were shunned because of the "eastern" style of dress and oriental customs. Sadly, they chose to gradually adapt to western ways, without I feel, ever completely losing something from the East, even if they fail to understand it.

If you look at that scapular, you will see on it a "crest" of three stars, which is symbol, the reduction of the icon of the Mother of God, to the three stars from her mantle, recalling her perpetual virginity.

My community at Aylesford has a new web page...

www.thefriars.org.uk [thefriars.org.uk]

Elias

Bless me a sinner, Father Elias,

Yes, that is a new revelation to me, the three stars as the Stars of the Perpetual Virginity of the Mother of God!

Thank you ever so much!

It really has nothing to do with the Mother of God and the prophets Elias and Eliseus, as the contemporary version would have it.

My third order scapular is actually made of rawhide, like the Paraman or "Askeem" of the Copts.

Sorry about raising that other contentious issue.

Perhaps I should just go home early . . .

God bless,

Alex

It is God who blesses you!

That "star" question, is a typical example of an older eastern tradition, preserved (but not understood) in modern Carmel. The "new" interpretation I suppose is valid, but it is not the historical one.

Elias

My friend, do not apologize. I hope we can get that other issue right this time, and that no one will be offended. I look forward to seeing if we are up to that task! Please, don't be discouraged.

Dear Hieromonk Elias,

Thank you for your wonderful reflection on the habit of monastics!

Thank you also for the link to the Friary.

Steve

Pardon me for inquiring, but, why does my scapular have five stars surrounding the "M"?
Adam

Dear Timothy
Perhaps you could even become a idiorythmic monk attached to some spritual father under a modified rule while living at home.

I think the term "idiorythmic" is right but am not sure.
Stephanos I

Dear Stephanos I,

This is an interesting proposal, and one that I would be interested in finding out more information about. Can you or anyone else suggest how to find out about this?

Thanks,

+Timothy, servant of God

Father Elias, what were the "oriental customs" that were not appreciated by the folks in the West?

Vicki

I should have mentioned that--although I find this proposal by Stephanos I interesting, I know and believe that it would be much better for me, poor sinner that I am, to enter the monastic life only in an established community like Holy Resurrection Monastery. Even if I must wait a few years until I am actually ready for that...

+Timothy, servant of God

Dear Timothy,

Very sensible attitude. Sometimes it is possible for a monk to live by himself, either as a hermit or working. But it is no way to begin the monastic life. For the beginning (and probably forever) the support and structures of the life in common is really ideal.

Elias