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My screenname is just a fancy way of saying "Teen of Christ." Christ is, as you know, God Incarnate (i.e., God in the flesh). Christ, the Second Person of the Adorable Trinity, has been called "the Word" since New Testament times (such as when, in the Gospel according to St. John, he writes that "the Word was with God, and the Word was God"). Anyway, "Logos" is the Greek form of "Word," and since Greek was either the or one of the first languages in which most of the New Testament was written, I thought it appropriate(ly) Eastern to name myself "Teen of the Incarnate Logos." Oh well, the mystery is solved!

That's quite obedient of you, and that's one of the best compliments a Catholic can receive! We should pray for the continued expansion of the Traditional Latin Mass by priests (such as the FSSP) who are recognized by the Holy See.

Perhaps your cross to bear, for the timebeing, is attendance at the New Order Mass on most Sundays (it seems to be mine, after all).

Logos Teen

P.S. Even if the local Ukrainian Catholic parish only offers the Divine Liturgy in Ukrainian, you should still consider going. The timeless beauty of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom transcends all language barriers.

And P.S.S.

As the charismatic priest said that brought us into the Ruthenian Byzantine Church, attending the Divine Liturgy sung in the native tongue of the people, is for someone outside of the Church like learning to pray in tongues.

We quickly learned the language of the Slavonic and Arabic people.
Pani Rose

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Teen Of The Incarnate Logos:
"My screenname is just a fancy way of saying "Teen of Christ." Christ is, as you know, God Incarnate (i.e., God in the flesh). Christ, the Second Person of the Adorable Trinity, has been called "the Word" since New Testament times (such as when, in the Gospel according to St. John, he writes that "the Word was with God, and the Word was God"). Anyway, "Logos" is the Greek form of "Word," and since Greek was either the or one of the first languages in which most of the New Testament was written, I thought it appropriate(ly) Eastern to name myself "Teen of the Incarnate Logos." Oh well, the mystery is solved!"

As my grandchildren would say: sweet

"Even if the local Ukrainian Catholic parish only offers the Divine Liturgy in Ukrainian, you should still consider going. The timeless beauty of the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom transcends all language barriers."

Yes, I agree with you on that point. I suppose, there is translation on the misselette and so it would not be much different than attending a Latin mass. (I never learnt to speak Latin after all :p )

Thank you Pani Rose,

I appreciate the good will in your comment, but I would like to stay away from contemporary tongues as far as possible. But you have made a good point about the language. I could pick it up as far as the liturgy goes, but I would never become proficient enough to understand the homily. Gosh, English was hard enough for me to learn, and yet I am exposed to it every day. Ruthenian? I believe my original nationality would place me with the Ruthenian Rite. God bless! I called the rectory, and I spoke to an answering machine... It had a very thick foreign accent.

Susan,

Actually, since the traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches include the celebration of the Divine Liturgy in the vernacular language of their faithful (albeit, sometimes in an older version of the common tongue or a liturgical tongue that had its roots in the vernacular), you would generally find that, in most of the EC parishes in North America, at least one service of the Liturgy is presently in English. If, however, your preference is against English, you could not be more in luck than to have only a Ukrainian parish near you.

As a consequence of the high percentage of immigrant parishioners and particularly strong ties between Church and their ethno-cultural heritage, the Ukrainians utilize their native tongue in the Liturgy to a much greater extent than any other EC Church in the Americas - for better or for worse. It certainly evokes a familiar aura for their emigrees, but can be a stumbling block in drawing newcomers to their churches who are intimidated by the language barrier.

There are no parishes of the Byzantine Hungarian Catholic Church (or Hungarian Greek Catholics, as you referred to them) in the Americas. In the US, they were originally intended to be served by the Ruthenian jurisdictions (in fact, the first Apostolic Visitor for the Ruthenians in the US, before they had their own jurisdiction, was a Hungarian priest). There are, however, some Ukrainian GCC parishes in the US that were initially founded for congregations that were heavily Hungarian.

In Canada, there is no Ruthenian jurisdiction, only Ukrainian and Slovak, so any Hungarian or Ruthenian Greek Catholics in Canada would be being served by one or the other of those jurisdictions.

Interestingly, the (Latin) Apostolic Visitor for Hungarian Emigrants Worldwide, His Excellency Attila Mikloshazy, S.J., the author of a Litany of Jesuit Saints [sentex.net] is resident in Canada. He is an emeritus professor in residence at a Jesuit college in Scarborough, ON.

Many years,

Neil

WELCOME !

I am likewise an "eastern-tilting Latin"
who attends both the Ruthenian Rite
and Ukrainian Rite Byzantine Liturgies....

antonius

Hi,

Well, then you have actually fulfilled the purpose of the Renewal. Most of what happens in the Renewal is spiritual baby-food, as the movement is specifically designed to be an entry point, a first-contact with non-believers, even among those who are nominally Christian, but do not practice the faith.

Once you have completed the basic formation process in the Renewal, you are actually expected to leave and become an active member of the Church wherever the Lord calls you. Only a few are called to stay and serve in the Renewal itself.

If you are ready for solid foods, then it is perfectly OK to leave the baby-food behind.

I do not see that much contradiction between the official positions of the Renewal and solid, orthodox Catholic teaching (Scriptural, Traditional or Magisterial).

I do see, however, some abuse in some specific groups, sometimes it is an undue emphasis on the more "spectacular" aspects of the Renewal (healings, tongues, rests in the Spirit, etc.), some other times it is a disregard for orthodoxy for the sake of a false open-mindness or ecumenism (and some times for the sake of the ignorance of some of the local leaders).

But a word of advise: Do not forget the breast that fed you before you could take solid foods. If you were a member of the Renewal for 15 years, that means the Renewal is a BIG part of who you are right now, even if that would be a non-member of the Renewal.

Shalom,
Memo.

Dear Neil,

"Actually, since the traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches include the celebration of the Divine Liturgy in the vernacular language of their faithful (albeit, sometimes in an older version of the common tongue or a liturgical tongue that had its roots in the vernacular), you would generally find that, in most of the EC parishes in North America, at least one service of the Liturgy is presently in English. If, however, your preference is against English, you could not be more in luck than to have only a Ukrainian parish near you."

Actually, I never had problems with the language. What I long for is the reverence in solemn worship. It seems to be lost in the Novus Ordo mass. It is more of a service these days than worship. It takes more of an individual effort to worship amid all the jokes, the clapping, the introduction of visitors during the homily, people running up and down the isle to shake hands during the sign of peace, the folk music on the stage and the general irreverence among the congregation. The language change may have been the trigger to loose some of the reverence, but I am not sure. So it may have more to do with the modernization of the rite rather than the change in the language. Certainly, the change in the language was not spelled out by Vatican II. If you read the documents, the original understanding was to keep the Latin. But that is a side issue, anyway, what I am getting at; I am terribly sinful, and I have to approach God with the utmost reverence and the Novus Ordo mass is not an easy way to do that. The Sacrifice is the same of course, but the general posture of the congregation is more of a hindrance than a help.

"As a consequence of the high percentage of immigrant parishioners and particularly strong ties between Church and their ethno-cultural heritage, the Ukrainians utilize their native tongue in the Liturgy to a much greater extent than any other EC Church in the Americas - for better or for worse. It certainly evokes a familiar aura for their emigrees, but can be a stumbling block in drawing newcomers to their churches who are intimidated by the language barrier."

Yes of course, there are benefits to the language as well as some drawbacks. But the best thing about the Divine Liturgy, has been the preservation of its ancient form, it has not been modernized like the Latin Rite.

"In Canada, there is no Ruthenian jurisdiction, only Ukrainian and Slovak, so any Hungarian or Ruthenian Greek Catholics in Canada would be being served by one or the other of those jurisdictions."

Yes of course, I realize that. My reference to it was just a friendly comment. Besides, I do not cling to my mother tongue; I have been fully Canadian-zed culturally. Which is not as common in Canada as in the USA, because we are not a melting pot, we pride ourselves as a multicultural society. However, I have not bought into that culturally, because I believed for the sake of one's emotional well being, one should adept culturally and not be preoccupied with one's heritage. It is certainly easier to let it fade than to maintain it in one's new country.

Thanks for the link.
God bless

Just a word of caution. Don't turn Eastern Catholic, no matter which Church, for any reason other than a love for our Eastern Liturgy, traditions, culture/customs and theology. If you are running away from something in the Latin Church, most likely you will find the same problems with us. We are more than a refuge for disgruntled Latins. We welcome with open arms those who come to us in a genuine love for who we are and who truly want to become one of us and that means more than an Eastern veneer over a Western mindset. Moe

Dear Memo,

I will admit that what was a curious sociological study of the Charismatic Renewal led me to embrace the Eastern Church and its spirituality more fully than ever before in my life.

I saw that the Christian East is truly the "Church of the Holy Spirit" and also of the Trinity in its liturgical emphasis in a way that other traditions simply are not.

My big problem with the Charismatic Renewal is what appears to be a rather uniform acceptance, more or less, depending on the parish groups, of Protestant forms of praying.

I just find it disrespectful and a turn-off.

But the true fruits of the Renewal, prayer, assiduous reading of the Scriptures and an awakening to the Voice of God in daily life - there are unmistakeable.

Alex

Hi Alex,

Then those "Protestant forms of praying" might not be all that objectively bad after all. If the Renewal is giving good fruit, specifically in the areas of praying and spiritual awakening, then we must be doing something good.

Again, the peculiar style of the Renewal might not be for everyone, and this is true not only about those who have never been formally part of the Renewal, but also those who "outgrew" the Renewal.

We are a movement for the Church, not for ourselves.

Shalom,
Memo.

Our local Charismatics have gospel music, speak in tongues, raise their arms in the air and their eyes roll backwards, and they dance around hysterically in trance-like states. We call them charismaniacs. The only thing resembling Catholicism in their services is the presence of a validly ordained priest, and the canon of the Mass. If they aren't Pentecostals, I would like to know what they are. I certainly can't tell the difference.

Hi,

Charislunatics, in other latitudes.

Drunks, in the Book of the Acts of the Apostles, Chapter 2, Verses 13 and 15.

Shalom,
Memo.

Hello Antonius,

I would be truly interested in your reasons for being an "eastern-tilting Latin"?

Regarding several of the posts about the charismatic renewal:

I am certain it is a false movement; its roots are in Protestantism; its existence and doctrine are based on twisted explanation of Scripture passages and to a lesser extent on superficial references to Catholic Mysticism. I can explain and defend my judgment, but perhaps this would not be appropriate on this forum. It would rather be like hijacking someone else's plane and crashing it over one's own territory. I do not want to ill use this forum, I wish to remain respectful of it. Perhaps I should have omitted what I said about it in the first place, since it is just one of my concerns and not the sole reason for the dissatisfaction with my Church. I should have said I preferred orthodoxy to innovation and traditionalism to modernism... and I should have left it at that. Please forgive me; I would be very sorry if I started a hot debate. I think I will not post on this topic again, and I just want to thank all of you for all your wonderful advice and your warm welcome. God bless!

Oh I fully agree with that. It would not be fair to anybody, including me. Thank you for pointing that out. In other words... if I changed rites, which I understand I would have to ask my Bishop's permission, it would be because I loved the Divine Liturgy and could not be for any other reason.