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The bottom line to your concerns and questions is that we refuse to take God at his Word. As an example look at:
Acts
Chapter 5

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1 A man named Ananias, however, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property.
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He retained for himself, with his wife's knowledge, some of the purchase price, took the remainder, and put it at the feet of the apostles.
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But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart so that you lied to the holy Spirit and retained part of the price of the land?
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While it remained unsold, did it not remain yours? And when it was sold, was it not still under your control? Why did you contrive this deed? You have lied not to human beings, but to God."
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When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last, and great fear came upon all who heard of it.
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The young men came and wrapped him up, then carried him out and buried him.
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After an interval of about three hours, his wife came in, unaware of what had happened.
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Peter said to her, "Tell me, did you sell the land for this amount?" She answered, "Yes, for that amount."
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Then Peter said to her, "Why did you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Listen, the footsteps of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out."
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At once, she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. When the young men entered they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
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And great fear came upon the whole church and upon all who heard of these things.
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2 Many signs and wonders were done among the people at the hands of the apostles. They were all together in Solomon's portico.
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None of the others dared to join them, but the people esteemed them.
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Yet more than ever, believers in the Lord, great numbers of men and women, were added to them.
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Thus they even carried the sick out into the streets and laid them on cots and mats so that when Peter came by, at least his shadow might fall on one or another of them.
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A large number of people from the towns in the vicinity of Jerusalem also gathered, bringing the sick and those disturbed by unclean spirits, and they were all cured.
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3 Then the high priest rose up and all his companions, that is, the party of the Sadducees, and, filled with jealousy,
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laid hands upon the apostles and put them in the public jail.
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But during the night, the angel of the Lord opened the doors of the prison, led them out, and said,
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"Go and take your place in the temple area, and tell the people everything about this life."
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When they heard this, they went to the temple early in the morning and taught. When the high priest and his companions arrived, they convened the Sanhedrin, the full senate of the Israelites, and sent to the jail to have them brought in.
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But the court officers who went did not find them in the prison, so they came back and reported,
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"We found the jail securely locked and the guards stationed outside the doors, but when we opened them, we found no one inside."
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When they heard this report, the captain of the temple guard and the chief priests were at a loss about them, as to what this would come to.
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Then someone came in and reported to them, "The men whom you put in prison are in the temple area and are teaching the people."
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Then the captain and the court officers went and brought them in, but without force, because they were afraid of being stoned by the people.
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When they had brought them in and made them stand before the Sanhedrin, the high priest questioned them,
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"We gave you strict orders (did we not?) to stop teaching in that name. Yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and want to bring this man's blood upon us."
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But Peter and the apostles said in reply, "We must obey God rather than men.
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4 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus, though you had him killed by hanging him on a tree.
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God exalted him at his right hand 5 as leader and savior to grant Israel repentance and forgiveness of sins.
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We are witnesses of these things, as is the holy Spirit that God has given to those who obey him."
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When they heard this, they became infuriated and wanted to put them to death.
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6 But a Pharisee in the Sanhedrin named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, respected by all the people, stood up, ordered the men to be put outside for a short time,
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and said to them, "Fellow Israelites, be careful what you are about to do to these men.
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7 Some time ago, Theudas appeared, claiming to be someone important, and about four hundred men joined him, but he was killed, and all those who were loyal to him were disbanded and came to nothing.
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After him came Judas the Galilean at the time of the census. He also drew people after him, but he too perished and all who were loyal to him were scattered.
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So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself.
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But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God." They were persuaded by him.
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After recalling the apostles, they had them flogged, ordered them to stop speaking in the name of Jesus, and dismissed them.
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So they left the presence of the Sanhedrin, rejoicing that they had been found worthy to suffer dishonor for the sake of the name.
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And all day long, both at the temple and in their homes, they did not stop teaching and proclaiming the Messiah, Jesus.

Since we refuse to allow God's Holy Spirit to move freely among us, we are not doing the works that God has called us to. We find it hard to believe that someone passing in our shadow could be healed. But this is truth, it is not just for the Apostles. This is what Christ gave to his Church and miracles are not for us but for the building up of the Body of Christ.

He said not to be concerned about what we are to eat or drink or even wear, that he would meet all of our needs. Yes he has given us the knowledge and wisdom to produce steel, for surgeons to operate and doctors to heal. But, he can do in the twinkling of an eye.

All of these things Christ did without the people having faith, they gained faith because of it

Matt. 8:5-10 It was the faith of the centurion that healed his own servant. If we apply this today those who have enough faith for their own healing can apply it to everyone else to be healed.

Mk.5:35-43The daughter of Jairus was healed from the fathers faith

Mk.2:5 Jesus healed the paralytic not because of his faith but of the four men who carried him.

Lk.17:11-19 Jesus healed all 10 but only one obeyed showing that he was the only one to possess true saving faith.

Jn.11 Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead certainly it wasn�t Lazarus� faith he was dead, neither did anyone else believe it could occur then. It was done so they could believe. (also Lk8:54).

Lk.8:26-39 The demoniac of Gadarene was healed without asking before he was capable of expressing his faith.

Lk.2:50-51 Jn.18:10 When peter cut of the ear of Malchus Jesus healed him without any faith present.

So to say that the man in the pew is not where he should be, that may or may not be true, but we are putting reference points on God, like the way we use to set tabs on a typewriter. We say God you have to do it this way, and he says I will do as I will. Our youngest son's Godfather is a Roman priest. He had a parishner that would bring his newspaper to church every Sunday and sit in the front row and read it during Mass. Fr. Mike and my husband talked about this quite often, and they agreed that they would pray for this man diligentlly before every Mass. It was only a few weeks before the newspaper disappeared. The man put it down one Sunday and sat up attentively and the last we heard he was still attentive to God's Word and his Eucharist.

These things that you are speaking of are no ones fault but our own. WE refuse to spend enough time in prayer, in God's Word, before his Holy Eucharist, also, we are not there everytime the doors of our Churches are opend. What is our relationship to God? Isn't that what the Jesus Prayer is all about. When we put ourselves into right relationship with God then all of these things that you speak of take order. God has given us everything he can, he tells Peter upon this rock I will build my Church look at Matthew 16:22-28. What did Peter do, he denied Christ, if those who walked with him fell short of his glory, oh my we are in trouble. But then Christ sent the Holy Spirit and 3,000 were added to their number that day.

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18 Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, "God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you."
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He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do."
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19 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me.
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For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21
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What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?
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22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
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23 Amen, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

He had to get on the Apostles and then in Mark 16:10-20. There hearts were hardened, oh my and he has just been ressurected from the dead. What did he tell them to do, use the power of the Holy Spirit.

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She went and told his companions who were mourning and weeping.
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When they heard that he was alive and had been seen by her, they did not believe.
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After this he appeared in another form to two of them walking along on their way to the country.
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They returned and told the others; but they did not believe them either.
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(But) later, as the eleven were at table, he appeared to them and rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart because they had not believed those who saw him after he had been raised.
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He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.
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Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.
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These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages.
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They will pick up serpents (with their hands), and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them. They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
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So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God.
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But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.)

As Chruch and as the Body of Christ, we depend too much on ourselves and not enough on God to accomplish what he wants done. Until man turns around and says your way Lord not mine, we are going to stay in this same limbo so to speak.
It doesn't mean that the worship and the big T tradtions are not important they are, they bind us together, they make us coheisive. But Jesus says to the Jews in John 8:33-37 that because they have no room for the Word of God in them they are not free. We are bound to this world because we do not let the Word of God move freely in us, if we did we would be free to do the will of the one who gave us life.

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They answered him, "We are descendants of Abraham and have never been enslaved to anyone. 16 How can you say, 'You will become free'?"
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Jesus answered them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave of sin.
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A slave does not remain in a household forever, but a son 17 always remains.
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So if a son frees you, then you will truly be free.
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I know that you are descendants of Abraham. But you are trying to kill me, because my word has no room among you.

Then 1 John 1 tells us again that the Word of God is life. So as long as we refuse to allow God to speak to us in his Word, to seek his light while it may still be found, and say that we are not at fault then we are blind and all these things that you have mentioned fall directly on our shoulders.

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1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we looked upon and touched with our hands concerns the Word of life--
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for the life was made visible; we have seen it and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made visible to us--
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what we have seen and heard we proclaim now to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; for our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
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We are writing this so that our joy may be complete.
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Now this is the message that we have heard from him and proclaim to you: God is light, 2 and in him there is no darkness at all.

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If we say, "We have fellowship with him," while we continue to walk in darkness, we lie and do not act in truth.
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But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of his Son Jesus cleanses us from all sin.
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If we say, "We are without sin," we deceive ourselves, 3 and the truth is not in us.
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If we acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing.
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If we say, "We have not sinned," we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


So there in no one to blame for the shape of the Church today, and especially what our precious priests have been going through but OURSLEVES.
Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and I am the first one that has to repent.

Pani Rose

Pani Rose,

Thank you for kindly reminding us, especially me, how things fail when we rely on ourselves and not God.

Joe

Joe:

Let's go back to the marriage analogy. In a marriage we bruise each other--based on that old saw that we hurt the ones we love the most or those who are closest to us.

Our relationship with Christ is based in community. He gives us the opportunity to love radically like He does. He even loves those He may not particularly like. Loving means that I care enough about someone else to want the best for that person--just as I want the best for myself. That's what church is about; that's what the relationship with Christ is about. He even challenges us when He reminds us that if we cannot love the brother that we see, how can we say that we love God Whom we cannot see?

There are few stellar characters in the clergy. Once in a great while we have a John Chrysostom or a Basil the Great or an Athanasius. Sometimes it seems that the system for selecting bishops almost freezes out the one who would stand against the whole world for the Truth. But God does manage to slip in those standouts. In the meantime, we've got to grind against those who are all too human, all too frail, all too timid. We've got the ones who have clay feet.

But it might be argued that we have the bishops we deserve. If our bishops don't make the best use of God's Grace, they'll have to answer for that. But, on the other hand, I also ask myself if I do. Jesus told us that we would do the works He did and greater ones than He. Well, for myself, I've got to confess that I must be wasting a lot of Grace and Faith effort because I haven't gotten to the point where I can give sight to the blind or hearing to the deaf or healing to the lame or raise the dead. It says to me that I've got a long way to go and with my years advancing I'd better get my effort into gear. When I have to face the Lord and He asks that one question, "WHY?"--I haven't made more progress in our relationship; I haven't been a better soul magnet in the greater community; I haven't nurtured my faith so that I could move mountains--I don't have a lot of good excuses (or any at all for that matter).

I once read a management textbook in which there was one paragraph that stood out and that is burnt into my memory. The author stated that a leader cannot get too far ahead of those he is leading. Otherwise he risks losing them and finding himself no longer a leader but one who is lost. Bishops fall into that category. They've got all the stripes of people we discuss here to care for: those who want to get deeply into the relationship with Christ; those satisfied with a once-a-week brush with Him; those interested in the means we use to develop relationship and the whole of Tradition; those who don't want anything changed from what they have known because their church is their comfort zone and they don't want to be challenged. Sometimes those wearing the mitre have to proceed cautiously so that they don't break apart the flock they are charged with caring for.

Yes, the whole can be frustrating. But I go back to the crucible. I didn't pick that word for no reason. A crucible is a vessel that is used for melting materials that require high heat for the process. It can also mean a severe test. And our Lord has us here to be tested; not to be comfortable. Remember he tells us He wants us to be either hot or cold--that He can handle. But the comfortable, the lukewarm, the comfortable, He wants to VOMIT out of His Mouth. Sometimes I use the analogy that the Lord is panning for gold; He is not shoveling coal. When we pan for gold, we are patient and pick up each speck. when we shovel coal we take everything, including the stones and coal dust. I ask myself if He is panning if He would keep me.

When I once was going through a period like you seem to be--disgusted with many of the players in the Church--my spiritual director challenged me to meditate on what it would mean to be the only Christian in the region. At first, it seemed that it would be easy. But community supports us and our practices. The first time I had a dry period I thought I was lost. And if I were the only one around, who would pick me up and help me when I hit bottom? We carry each other; we support each other; and we pray for each other. Sometimes I'm now glad that there are others to share my pilgrimmage. I don't have to have all the answers; I can marvel at what the Holy Spirit can say or do through another; I can be taught. I've heard it said that the difference between the living and the dead is that the former can grow, change, and learn; the latter cannot do any of that.

I'm in a love affair with Christ and His Church. Sometimes it goes well; sometimes I have to go back and make amends; sometimes one step forward and two steps back; sometimes two forward, one back; sometimes marking time. It's messy; it's unpredictable; it's a faith ride--a rollercoaster. As my current pastor says, when Jesus "messes around in your life" nothing is ever the same.

Your parish, your eparchy is a cake of yeast. It's meant to leaven. Sometimes yeast gets old and needs to be replaced. But this analogy limps. The Holy Spirit is the Church's leaven and He may lie low at some points in the pilgrimmage, but He's always around to surprise people and get things really stirred up when we are open to His inspiration.

So I'd recommend that when one feels that things are not quite up to snuff one ought to start with oneself. Endeavor to deepen one's own relationship with Christ with all the available helps that your particular Church has: Mysteries, fasting, spiritual reading, etc. And pray that you will be the leaven for others.

I wrote to another Christian brother of mine who was hurting and I told him:

"Remember the words of the first antiphon: "Put not your trust in princes, in sons of men, in whom there is no salvation . . ." Our hope is not in bishops, not in Church structures, not in safety for ourselves in this life. Our hope is in Jesus Christ . . ."

Hope this helps.

In Christ,

BOB

Bob,

Thank you for your words of encouragement. In the past year I have contemplated leaving my church. The lies and misleadings were never addressed. Cruel people get away having won this round. Though many folks are extremely upset with me leaving the deacon program, I decided to let the cruel ones win this one. I basically gave up. Not a best solution when things get disturbing.

I was able to take the misleadings for several years, but when my wife, who suffered a second miscarriage, was flippantly considered not as important as a paper, then I began to think how something was wrong. I got tired of the smoke being blown up my leg when I asked for clarifications of their rules and procedures.

I am convinced that there are hidden agendas that prompt some to put up roadblocks for those who only want to do good. I never learned the secret handshake of the club, nor do I ever want to learn it. Communication was as piss pitiful as direction. My program kept changing with each passing year. My goal was a moving target moved in the darkness of the night by inept clerics who I learned not to trust. They don't have my respect anymore. They don't deserve it.

What I miss most was the inner joy I once had before responding to the call for vocations. I used to be a happy camper before Feb 1998. Then I was reminded of how indespicable some people can be. It was a sorrowful experience that put a damper on my prayer life and church participation. I miss the good ol' days. But that chapter of my life I cannot rip out.

I also wish I can personally apologize to all those on these forums for my past behavior when I ripped into them. I spoke often as a frustrated and angry man. Call it anger displacement. It was totally uncalled for.

I have never had such a low appreciation of our church leaders. Not only have our church leaders failed to lead, they have also failed to give meaning to why we should appreciate them. Yes, they inherit the problems of former leaders, and have to deal with new problems. I would not want their job, no matter how many fancy mitres, jewelry, and outlandish vestments they get to wear.

My dear wife even noticed how a sense of humor has returned to me after leaving. I am now on a search for peace. But I suffer from periods of remorse and anger. Something deep down is still eating at me. Those periods of remorse and anger begin again when fellow church members (of other parishes, never my own, of course) ask if I am still in the deacon program.

There are times when I feel that the past twenty-three years being involved with the church in some form of ministry has been a waste of time. I cannot nor will not support any vocation program only to witness other people, ones who I like, go through the same crap of lies and misleadings as I did. But the liars and misleaders got to keep their job.

Such experiences are what novels are made of.

Joe

Joe:

You have my email address. Consider this my invitation to begin a private dialogue about where you are and where you believe the Lord is calling you.

I promise unconditional support, prayers, and an open ear for you to vent; no judgments here.

Remember Jesus Christ is never a waste of time. You were serving Him, whether it felt like it or not. You touched His People. You reflected Him. We often forget this when it seems like we want to throw in the towel. I told another brother once who was experiencing much the same reaction--take this bitter taste in your mouth and spit it out. You have a wonderful wife--who is part of you; you are one flesh--children (?), a source of financial support (job), your faith. No one can take away your faith or your relationship with Christ, unless you let them. AND DON'T LET ANYONE DO THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Christ,

BOB

Joe,

My prayers for healing of the wounds that your mind and soul and spirit have suffered.

Many years.

Neil