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Troy ,
I have looked at your pages - and tried very hard to understand what is there - but your Questions for Informal Apostles and Elders - 23 Questions does concern me - particularly number 12

12. Do agree that you are not a member of any denomination, church corporate structure; and that if you say you are not in a denomination, can you also say you are not a protestant, orthodox, or roman catholic, or any other qualification other than just a Christian, and that you are simply fellowshipping in a locality? Can you truly say this?

You see I am Catholic - and my Community is my Local Parish about 3 miles from where I live - we are about 5000 strong and believe we are a Community of Christ

question 21 21. Do you believe that baptism is with or without water?

For me Baptism has to be done with water - the way that the Church demands and prescribes for us .

I'm sorry - but from what I have seen and read - there are very great differences between us - and I do not see how we can really become close - you must also learn from us - and I do not think you are willing so to do

Now you can see why you can not be an informal apostle since you willingly change the Word of God as it pertains to question 12 and 21. You may be saved, but unfortunately you have legalized baptism,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/waterbaptism.htm
You said you want me to learn from this, but to me this is a sin, so I can not learn anything from such a sin, or the sin of dividing the body of Christ beyond the boundary of church locality.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Boundary.htm
We are divided because you have divided the body of Christ, which makes sense, since you are member of the great harlot, of religious Rome, Rev. 17, as she makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8).
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Revelation_17.htm
Such things are foretold in the Scriptures, and when Christ returns, though you may be saved, He will destroy your organization. Praise the Lord!
http://philologos.org/__eb-ttb/default.htm

Troy ,

what you have said makes me very sad

I will pray for you

Anhelyna

Troy,

If you wish to continue posting here I must ask you to refrain from throwing stones in our house. Calling Rome a "harlot" is certainly a misreading of Scripture, and it is not something that is acceptable in this forum.

Fr. Deacon Edward, moderator

These things make me very sad too, but praise the Lord God will take care of it.

I admire your "moderation." I moderate a Baptist board and if someone came in with that kind of attack towards us my warning would have been a little more terse .

Satan is a false accuser, so you ought not to attack by saying the truth is attacking you, and then patting yourself or someone else like you in beliefs of corporate structures and regional churches, on the back for not banning me. That is warped and twisted. You can really get a sense of how beguiling the evil spirit intends to be in such efforts.

Praise the Lord we have a remnant of Christian forums, http://christianforums.itopsites.com/ across the globe whom there is at least one forum that needs to overcome the same problem.

Dear Troy,

No one here has stated that the truth is attacking us. The only attacks in this thread have been from you and you do not speak the truth. You have no authority to interpret the Holy Scriptures. Only the Church which produced the Holy Scriptures can rightly interpret them. If you wish to learn about how we worship Jesus Christ, then spend time reading and ask questions. Please do not be so presumptuous as to take upon yourself an infallible understanding of the Holy Scriptures. If you truly wish to know what they mean look to the Church and especially to the Church Fathers.

Please also refrain from your continued posting links to other sites.

Admin

So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 2 Thess 2:15

In learning of the early Church fathers you see chilliasm, through and through.

Your error lies in saying the "Church which produced the Holy Scriptures can rightly interpret them".

The church never produced the Holy Scriptures, nor did your version of the church. It was the Holy Spirit whom alone was the author through faithful believers in Christ.

You should not presume the infallibility of your version of the church, and see that the church in locality is God's will for fellowship and assembly as proven here as it was from the foundation of the church, eg. church in Jerusalem in the churches of Judah, or the church of Ephesus in the churches of Asia Minor, or the church of Edmonton in the churches of Alberta.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/whichchurch.htm

This is not much of a forum if you can't post a link to prove the truth that you obviously reject.

Let the truth set you free from the bondage of division for the church does not exceed the boundary of locality despite your flesh saying otherwise, in your regional man-made ideology.

So many idols, the very reason for the breakup of RCC and ECC. So much regional ideology pedestals.

Wake up, you are behaving as dead men. The church exists in locality. Don't you get it yet, even afte I spoke so directly to you?

On what basis do you make such a claim?

On what authority do you make such a statement?

The Holy Spirit most certainly inspired the bishops of the Church to produce the New Testament, but only over a very long period of time. If you study early Christian history you will see that there was a considerable disagreement among Christians about which books belonged to the canon of the New Testament. Some early Christians said that the Book of Revelation did not belong in the canon. Others said that Pope Clement�s Letter to the Corinthians (written about A.D. 80) and Hermas� The Shepherd (written in the early second century) did belong to the New Testament. Around A.D. 300 only about 18 of today�s New Testament books were held in common agreement as canonical, but without official agreement. It is historical fact that there was no common agreement about which books belonged to the New Testament until the Church gathered at the Synod of Rome under Pope Damasus I in 382 to pray over the books and ask the Holy Spirit to direct them in creating the canon of the New Testament. Their decision was ratified again at the Council of Hippo (393) and the Council of Carthage (397 and again in 419). All who accept the Church�s canon of the New Testament acknowledge the decisions of these Church councils. Those reject this reject historical fact.

You accept the books of the New Testament because they were in the Bible when you got your first copy. You accept them because they were handed on to you. This means that you accept the Canon of the New Testament because of Holy Tradition, because Holy Tradition is what is handed on to us from those who were in the faith before us. Your knowledge of the books that belong in the Bible is from the Holy Tradition of the Church that I belong to, the Church which started on Pentecost and which has existed for two thousand years. If you accept the Bible you must explain why you accept the authority of the Church in creating the Bible and why you accept its authority here and not in other things.

Ask yourself this question, Troy: �Where did I get the Bible from?� Until you can give a complete answer you are not in a position give any authority to the Bible or claim that it or you has teaching authority.

On what basis do you make such a claim?

On what authority do you make such a statement?

The Byzantine Forum exists as a place for discussions. It is not a place for you to list links to other sites. If you have points you wish to make, make them here.

If you choose to post again please address your next post to the questions I have asked above.

Basis is Biblical locality, and authority is the authority of the Holy Spirit testifying in my spirit in agreement with the Word of God.

Yes, these things are obvious, but who was the real author? Holy Spirit.

No. I accept the Word of God for over and over again it has proven itself to me in complete agreement in 66 books of the Bible. That is why, not the reason you state. You ought not to bear false witness for your flesh, nor make men of history your idols.

This then would be your false conclusion from the above false premise. I accept the canon because the the Holy Spirit in my spirit agrees that it is true.

Yet God wants you to see something you have blinded yourself and man has blinded himself to for too long. Biblical locality. I trust you know what I mean. If you don't, begin now.
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm

I do not accept the authority of the church in creating the Bible, that is your assumption. The church did not create the Bible, the church was given the Word of God, it was not the creator as you need to believe. The Holy Spirit made it happen, not men of the church. What you belong to is a warped and twisted misalignment and a loss on God's will. But God is working through Biblical locality and has been every century however sparse which will come to its fullest fruition in the coming millennial kingdom and the new earth after that. I know this is all quite hard for you to take right now, but with prayer you will come to see if you are a believer and dealt with by the cross.

The Bible comes by the Holy Spirit whom God the Father gave to us through the Son.

As proven in the Scriptures by the Holy Spirit. The full proof is here,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/bodyofchrist.htm
You know in your intuitive conscience this is true. The question is, when and if you are going to do something about it, heeding your conscience. God is waiting.

There is not enough space to write everything. Some things require your paitent readership.

Done.

You might consider posting that sentence at Chomsky Park. [learnenglish.org.uk]

While I may differ with the folks here on many points of their doctrine (I am sola scriptura for example), this is their board and it is not the place to come and attack their views, especially with a series of links. It is a privilage to be permitted to post here, a privilage which the Webmaster has every right to withdraw.

I agree, we should not attack the webmaster or the owners of this forum, but since no one is attacking the webmaster in this conversation why does such a statement need to be brought up, unless one is actually bearing false witness acting like the false accuser in so doing. Do you see how sneaky the flesh is? My recommendation is take a moment, listen to a song, and let God by His grace soften your spirit.

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Bestillandknow.mp3

The webmaster or owner has a privilege to serve others here on this forum, though he may ban anyone he chooses since it is in his power to do so, but this does not mean it is right and pleasing to God to have done so. Again that is the flesh.

djs, it is sad to hear you are unregenerated. Do you know that there is a heaven and hell?