www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology The Brothers of Jesus

I take it that you are drawing this from Luke 2:7 -

"And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn." (RSV)

Pretty clever, Alex, I never paid much attention to the "her" before. Interesting.

Quote

Both Mary and Joseph were of the House of David.

It is generally accepted that the genealogies of Christ found in Matthew & Luke are that of Joseph alone. Are you basing Mary's claim on the apocryphal gospels? I think they do make such a claim for her, but am not sure...

Quote

And even if the line is extended through the male, there were a number of times in Old Testament history where an adoptee was placed in line.

Good point. Esau and Jacob spring to mind...

"QUOTE) Jewish fathers traditionally didn't name their children after themselves."

What about Luke 1:59-60?

"On the eighth day they came to circumcise the child, and they were going to name him after his father Zechariah, but his mother spoke up and said, "No! He is to be called John."
PAX

Br. Elias

Thank you all for answering my questions. I feel much more comfortable with the Epiphanian view now.

Adam

Well darn, nothing like missing the obvious... Thanks, Brother!

I found an interesting argument for the Hieronymian view from the old Catholic Encyclopedia [newadvent.org] :

"James is without doubt the Bishop of Jerusalem (Acts 12:17, 15:13, 21:18; Galatians 1:19; 2:9-12) and the author of the first Catholic Epistle. His identity with James the Less (Mark 15:40) and the Apostle James, the son of Alpheus (Matt 10:3; Mark 3:18), although contested by many Protestant critics, may also be considered as certain. There is no reasonable doubt that in Galatians 1:19: "But other of the apostles [besides Cephas] I saw none, saving James the brother of the Lord", St. Paul represents James as a member of the Apostolic college. The purpose for which the statement is made, makes it clear that the "apostles" is to be taken strictly to designate the Twelve, and its truthfulness demands that the clause "saving James" be understood to mean, that in addition to Cephas, St. Paul saw another Apostle, "James the brother of the Lord" (cf. Acts 9:27). Besides, the prominence and authority of James among the Apostles (Acts 15:13; Galatians 2:9; in the latter text he is even named before Cephas) could have belonged only to one of their number. Now there were only two Apostles named James: James the son of Zebedee, and James the son of Alpheus (Matt 10:3; Mark 3:18; Luke 6:16; Acts 1:13). The former is out of the question, since he was dead at the time of the events to which Acts 15:6 ssq., and Galatians 2:9-12 refer (cf. Acts 12:2). James "the brother of the Lord" is therefore one with James the son of Alpheus, and consequently with James the Less, the identity of these two being generally conceded. Again, on comparing John 19:25 with Matt 27:56, and Mark 15:40 (cf. Mark 15:47; 16:1), we find that Mary of Cleophas, or more correctly Clopas (Klopas), the sister of Mary the Mother of Christ, is the same as Mary the mother of James the Less and of Joseph, or Joses. As married women are not distinguished by the addition of their father's name, Mary of Clopas must be the wife of Clopas, and not his daughter, as has been maintained. Moreover, the names of her sons and the order in which they are given, no doubt the order of seniority, warrant us in identifying these sons with James and Joseph, or Joses, the "brethren" of the Lord. The existence among the early followers of Christ of two sets of brothers having the same names in the order of age, is not likely, and cannot be assumed without proof. Once this identity is conceded, the conclusion cannot well be avoided that Clopas and Alpheus are one person, even if the two names are quite distinct. It is, however, highly probable, and commonly admitted, that Clopas and Alpheus are merely different transcriptions of the same Aramaic word Halphai. James and Joseph the "brethren" of the Lord are thus the sons of Alpheus."

Hi:

My understadning is that for the Hebrew culture, at least up to the times of Jesus, there was no distinction in legal rights between biological and adopted children.

Shalom,
Memo.

IrishJohan:

Funny, but at the start of this thread (8th post)I did direct Theosis, and indirectly you, to read the Catholic Encyclopedia's treatment of the subject.

Now, I realize you were not just paying attention to my post!

AmdG

My apologies, Amado. I had read this article from the CE beforehand but neglected to follow up on the links you provided. I've been pressed for time online the past few days. No slight was intended.

Btw, a friend has informed me that I've overlooked the very early testimony of St. Papias:

("Mary the mother of the Lord; Mary the wife of Cleophas or Alphaeus, who was the mother of James the bishop and apostle, and of Simon and Thaddeus, and of one Joseph; Mary Salome, wife of Zebedee, mother of John the evangelist and James; Mary Magdalene. These four are found in the Gospel. James and Judas and Joseph were sons of an aunt of the Lord's. James also and John were sons of another aunt of the Lord's. Mary, mother of James the Less and Joseph, wife of Alphaeus was the sister of Mary the mother of the Lord, whom John names of Cleophas, either from her father or from the family of the clan, or for some other reason. Mary Salome is called Salome either from her husband or her village. Some affirm that she is the same as Mary of Cleophas, because she had two husbands."