www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Prayerbook: A question for Alex & Diak

Alex and Diak, I have been looking for a good prayerbook and while I find many out there with an Eastern perspective, some of which are very good, I can't seem to find any that truly reflect the prayer and devotional life of our Ukrainian Church. Have either of you ever thought of putting your vast knowledge of the Church to use and making a collection of prayers and devotions for general use? Maybe you could collaborate on a project such as this and it could reflect your direct experience with both Catholic and Orthodox Churches, both here and in Ukraine..as well as the Old Believer traditions you are both so familiar with. What do you think? And the rest of the forum? Would you be interested in a prayerbook edited by Alex and Diak? Just a thought from this wannabe Ukie. Don

Don,

since neither Alex nor Diak have answered you - this Latin will - I would love to see the results of their collaboration

Dear Don,

I've been pondering your question until it suddenly "Donned" on me . . .

One issue for the development of such a prayerbook - and I've been involved with committees to develop prayerbooks in the past - is the acquisition of a bishop's "imprimatur" before publication.

In my experience, there is a reticence among some hierarchs to grant permission for the publication of prayerbooks developed by laity. Perhaps that does not obtain in others' experience, but it does in mine.

But if I were going to develop such a prayerbook with Diak, this is my view of what it should contain:

1) Formal Morning and Evening prayers from Jordanville and Old Believer sources;

2) A "catechetical" section containing the nine precepts of the Church, among other things, as set forth by St Peter Mohyla, explanation of the Sign of the Cross in the true Kyivan tradition, the nine Beatitudes and the Eastern version of the 10 commandments and the two great commandments.

3) A separate section on the Jesus Prayer, what, how, when and where.

4) The rule of Canons and Akathists, including Canons to our Lord Jesus, the Mother of God and the Guardian Angel. Akathists to our Lord Jesus, the Annunciation, the Dormition, St Nicholas, the Passion and for Holy Communion.

5) A section explaining the Psalter, how it is divided and said in the Byzantine tradition and where one can order one .

6) A section explaining the Horologion and why laity should enter into the daily liturgical prayer of the Church, including a doable Horologion, such as what our Brother in Christ, Lance, has developed.

7) The formal Offices for Confession and Holy Communion.

8) Prayers of Eastern Saints for various occasions and needs with an explanation of the Moleben and its text with variable propers.

9) A section on the Divine Liturgy, with text and copious explanatory notes along the way, what people should be doing when etc.

10) A section on Scripture and its place in our prayer life - together with a basic "rule" for daily reading set within a liturgical context.

11) A reference to the Rule of the Mother of God with meditations for the 150 "Rejoice O Theotokos Virgin."

12) Finally, a section on the Calendar, with the feasts of our Saints and Martyrs, Catholic and Orthodox, highlighted with their brief lives.

Do you think this will be a best seller?

Perhaps then the bishop will grant his seal of approval?

Alex

Alex, yes I think if you had something like that you would be able to get a bishop's permission to print...and if you had Diak helping you out you'd be more than just a layman, he is a cleric you know I personally believe there is a need for a work like this in English for our folks....it would serve several purposes: Give English-speaking Ukrainian Cathlics and others interested in our traditions a source of devotional materials collected into one book, it would serve as educational material for those wanting to learn more about our tradition and it would also serve to educate our own people about just what our traditions are. I know I would use a book such as you describe and would be able to give it to people I know who have expressed interest in learning more about our Church and traditions. Please think about it seriously and I pledge any assistance I can give. Also talk to Diak about this, I think getting your minds together would be a perfect mix! Heck, if you got Dr. John involved as well the three of you could probably convert the whole world to Eastern Catholicism! Don

Alex,
A format such as that oould literally be a God send.

Do get together with Diak and Dr John and start the project. I'm sure that many would appreciate such a collection of resources.

Angela

Alex, another thought...let me tell you a story...

Locally there was and old RC mission in a small town. The church was old and falling apart, so this coupled with the shortage of priests convinced the bishop that he should just close the parish. The folks in the parish raised a big fuss and offered to build a new church, but the bishop said no. The parish was "officially closed", the church building torn down and the land sold. The parish didn't die though...the people went together, bought land, built a church and then went to the bishop saying "here's a church now we need a priest" and signed it over to the Archdiocese. When faced with the people's faith, the bishop couldn't do much else but start sending a priest from a nearby town on Sundays for Mass. The faith and hard work of the parishioners paid off and the parish, although still small in numbers, is thriving today.

Maybe that is what you need to do my friend. The work is needed, do it, then present it to a bishop saying basically "here, do with it as you will". I'm sure your faith and work would be rewarded as well. And you could use any money you make to help the folks "back home"

But, that's just my scattered thoughts on the matter my learned friend.

Your loyal fan and friend. Don

This is a very interesting thread.

After having just lurked for all these months, I would like to opine, if I may, as this is a topic very dear to my heart.

As a member of the same Deaconal training program as Diak, I can attest to the fact the there already exist pretty much what you are all asking for - albeit in Ukrainian; the Molitvoslov and the Chasoslov. The former contains the complete texts of all the cannonical hours, including all the variable texts (tropars, kondaks, PS 140 readings, etc.). In addition, it contains a very complete Menaion with all the necessary text for use in place of the Festal Menaion. The latter contains pretty much everything else that's been itemized on this list, including the Divine LIturgy and all the requisite devotions from a genuine Eastern perspective. I use these two exclusively (as I am bilingual Ukrainian/English) and they are superior in every respect to BDW and the 5 vol set put out by the Sisters of St. Basil. Without exception, all Ukrainian Catholic priests I know - from the Ukraine and those few who are 'home grown' use these two and only these two. They are also quite popular with our Ukrainian-speaking parishioners; our non-Ukrainian speaking parishioners are at a disadvantage and use BDW.

Obvioulsy the problem remains that they are in Ukrainian and what we all need is a faithful translation into non-feminist/non-inclusive English (which, btw, would be the less time consuming and expensive then authoring completely new texts). The problem with our UGCC, is that - I'm sure you all know - is that we are only out of the 'catacomes' for only about 10 years or so. Our church has not had the time or the resources to produce all these types of materials that She knows we want and need.

I would be very happy to let any who's interested know how/where to get these Ukrainin-only versions if they'd like.

May God bless.

Dear English-language Friends

Actually, everything listed in my own Table of Contents is contained on this site and in English:

pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/services.htm

God bless,

Alex

I am a letterpress printer. I would be VERY happy to help such a project along. I would be willing to offer a hand-bound deluxe edition, should that be desired for those who would be willing to donate appropriate funds to such a project.

Michael

Wow what a great idea! Let me know when its finished.

Michael, I would donate for this, as well as buy several copies for myself and gifts. Don

A couple of problems with this Alex...I prefer to pray in Church or icon corner rather than before my computer, I don't have a laptop to take to Church with me and I have a nostalgia (call me old fashioned) for a prayerbook with real paper pages, ribbons I can flip and the ability to hide holy cards between the pages. Don

Another problem with that too - printing it all out leaves you with a mass of sheets of paper which are not exactly pocket sized either - and if you drop them - you are in trouble

Angela

I believe that the book your are waiting for is already in the planning stage. It is going to be published by St. Demetrius Church, Toronto, and will be Divine Liturgy Service book, with musical notation. It will include the Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom and Basil the Great, a full calendar with troparia and kontakia for all the major feasts (set to music), including lesser feasts, propers for the New-Martyrs (Blessed Nicholas of Volyn, etc.), the Hours, Canons for Preparation for Holy Communion, Pre- and Post-Communion Prayers, along with Theological explanations for all the major portions of the Divine Liturgy. Basically everything you need when a Divine Liturgy is being served, including Vesperal Litrugies (i.e. Holy Saturday, Christmas Eve, etc.). Coming soon to a Ukrainian Greco-Catholic Parish near you!

Daniil

Dear Father Don, I am humbled indeed by your request. And our illustrious brother Alex has already proposed a brilliant outline. Funny you asked, I have some ideas...where do I start?
This issue has actually come up in the class I taught for the Stamford diaconate program on the Typikon.

I think first, some of the issues by Novocilman need to be addressed. The 1990 Basilian Molitvoslov of which he mentions is actually very abbreviated with respect to the Menaion. It could not be considered "complete" when compared with an unabbreviated Horologion (Chasoslov), Oktoechos, Festal Meniaion, Triodion, and Pentecostarion. And it does not contain any of the proper (common) parts of the Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysystom, St. Basil the Great, or the Presanctified Liturgy.

For just example, (and I could go into many) generally only the ninth Ode for Matins (Utrennya) is included for the feast days of the Menaion (which are also abbreviated in number) in the 1990 Basilian Molitvoslov. This is a significant abbreviation of most of the Canon, 7/8s omitted if you are using one Canon, and 15/16s omitted if you are using two Canons as are appointed for polyeleos-rank feast days in the complete Festal Menaion.

In my opinion this is an ommission of some of the most beautiful hymnography of the Constantinopolitan tradition and some of the real genius of Byzantine liturgy. These are core texts which are poetic marvels and the odes are based on a most profound scriptural progression from the Old Testament to the New.

There are many other abbreviations in the 1990 Basilian Molitvoslov as well, but we can discuss that another time. Although many of the UGCC priests do use it, I also know of several of our UGCC priests who do not use that Molitvoslov precisely because of the abundant abbreviations. It is fine for those who want an extremely rudimentary Molitvoslov/Chasoslov, but one should realize it does have significant limitations.

Actually the older Chasoslov blessed by Patriarch Josyp for use by the Studites in Rome is a far superior Ukrainian version relative to the 1990 Basilian Molitvoslov and is closer to the Slavonic original. We won't go into the internal competition between the Basilians vs. the Studites of which Alex is certainly familiar.

And it is not a question of the availability of the texts, anyone can get the 1990 Basilian Molitvoslov in Ukrainian from Basilian Press in Toronto and they occaisionally have some of the Slipyj version as well. The quesion is a good English translation.

I'm not trying to be overly critical of the 1990 Molitvoslov, but to just to realistically point out that it should not be considered in any way "complete" in terms of containing the entirety of liturgical texts of the Byzantine-Slavonic tradition. I'm way off on that tangent, sorry.

It's really a classic catch 22. How much do you try and cram into one book knowing that you can't get it all.

The English version of Matins, Vespers, Triodion, Pentecostarion and Festal Meniaion by the Sisters at Uniontown is much more complete that the texts included in the Ukrainian 1990 Basilian Molitvoslov. But there are issues with the English translation of the Uniontown books, another issue that would take a long time to hash out. And who wants to lug around five big hard-bound books about the size of a dictionary when you want to have some prayer time at work or travelling?

I would consider two prayer books, a two-volume set, about the length and font size of the Erie book for those who are familiar with the Erie Old Believer prayerbook. One volume would contain the Divine Liturgies, propers for feast days, prparation prayers and canons, instructions, etc., all related to the Divine Liturgy.

The second would be available for the Divine Praises (Office), daily prayers, Canons, etc. This takes away from the idea of a "one stop shop" approach, but that is nearly impossible to do with justice to the wealth of the Byzantine tradition. And to work in all of the catechetical instruction, rubrics, etc. would complicate the matter further with one book.

Could everyone live with two volumes?

Our esteemed brother Daniil brings up a good point with respect to the new pew books underway. As I am now an alumnus of the Stamford diaconal program, we used the draft "beta version" of the Hours and Divine Liturgy texts that Daniil is referring to for a couple of years now. His eminent father and uncle assisted in their compilation, as did several other experienced clergy and cantors. They are very nice texts with great music.

But this pew book will be missing such wonderful offices as the Typika, the Midnight Office and Small Compline which are actually some of the more amenable offices to private and family usage. And most people pray at dinnertime, night, or early morning as well, even more reason to include these.

Alex has hit one nail on the head. Catechetics and instruction are critical. So many of our books have little or no instructions, perhaps just a few rubrics for clergy. The Mohyilian catechism is an important element (and thoroughly Kyivan). It's great to have a book of prayers but you have to have something to tie it together catechetically which underlines the significance and meaning of it all.

My problem would be temperance in trying to sneak in all that great Old Believer stuff...and I know Alex wouldn't be much help with those temptations

"Liturgy is the place of theophany and transfiguration, the place where God and the individual meet, where each person participates in the mystery of redemption." Catechetical Directory of the Ukrainian Catholic Church