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In another thread someone rejoiced that a "continuing" Anglican Church had "come half way home" by becoming Western Rite Antiochian Ortodox. I wonder if that is exactly what some of us think. Aren't we actually Orthodox is Communion with Rome? Is it any better to be Roman Catholic than it is to be Orthodox? Isn't such a comment that Orthodoxy is only 1/2 way home "ultramontanist"?

CDL

Dan,

My read on the post was not so much aimed at the Orthodox Church, but by the beliefs and doctrines espoused by the Continuing Anglicans in Ned's region. Also I think that it is in reference also that they are still in transition.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

I'm in a discussion with some Orthodox who scoff at the Eastern Catholic Church as mere puppets of the Roman Catholic Church. We don't know who we are, so they insist. If I have misunderstood Stephanos' comment then I apologize.

Yet the question remains: Are we the Church that existed prior to 1054 and are we a continuation of it? If not then why do we exist? If so Orthodoxy seems not to be half way home but nearly all the way home from any form of Anglicanism.

Turn it around. Would we have said of the Anglicans if they had converted to the Roman Cathololic Church that they were now 1/2 way home or would we have said that they have come all the way home?

CDL

A thought just occured where the comment is about their being Western Orthodox, instead of Eastern Orthodox and not about anything else and that is where the reference to being 1/2 way belongs.

ICXC
NIKA

Well, Carson, I wouldn't say "half way home," as Stephanos did; I'd probably say 97% home (but that's an arbitrary number! ).

As a Catholic yes, I think it's better to be a Roman Catholic than an Eastern Orthodox. But I think it's better to be an observant EO than a non-observant RC, of course! As a Catholic, I believe the true Church of Christ = the Communion of Sui Iuris Churches united with Rome. This seems to me only logical. In the same manner, it seems only logical that members of the Eastern Orthodox Communion of Churches would view their Church as Christ's True Church.

Members of either of these Communions who deny this about their own Church frankly confuse me, but seeing as there is quite a contingent of people who think that way in this Forum, I don't really make too much mention of it (or try not to), because people's minds are mostly made up and to continually bring up this subject only divides people.

Hasn't this general subject been hashed out innumerable times on this Forum?

Logos Teen

As I have said before, I am not an "Orthodox in Communion with Rome". I have always hated that term.

I am a Byzantine Catholic.

I do not feel that they are half way home though. I believe that while they may be home, the choice of where they find that home is imperfect as they are Western and not Eastern.

They are reverse Uniates. Just another obstacle to unity. After all they could have chose Rome, but they didn't, so what makes up believe that if the day ever comes for reunion that they will gladly come over?

David,

Is your position then that Orthodoxy will have to make all of the changes for union to be effected? I doubt very much that will ever happen. I gather that you do not see us as a martyr Church. From your perspective will we cease to exist as a separate entity if union should ever come about? If not, why not?

CDL

This thread is looking like it has outlived it's usefulness.

So some of us have suddenly it seems discovered new potholes on the road of faith we all travel on. Nothing that in time and with prayer we can't sort out under God and in His time and not ours.

I dont consider that some of the comments made so far were necessary or even helpful in understanding the complexities of our respective Churches. Some would have been better sent privately if they had to be sent at all.

Is it understood why some Byzantine Catholics choose to describe themselves as Orthodox in communion with Rome?

ICXC
NIKA

Dan, if you have followed my great sentiments for the Orthodox then you would indeed know that you did not interpret my remarks correctly.
And I am not certainly an ultramontanist!
Stephanos I

What changes will the Orthodox have to make?

No, my belief is that we, our Byzantine Catholic Churches, will cease to exist at the time of reunion. That we will be "reabsorbed" into our Mother Churches.

But what of the Western Orthodox? Will they be reabsorbed by Rome? If so, what about these recent "converts"? Will they strike out on their own once again as they have chosen against Rome.

Actually David, this is an interesting question and observation. I think though it can be only answered by one that are in those shoes in Western Orthodoxy.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Lets worry aobut that one when we get there. We can speculate all we like but it does seem a bit pointless at this stage. We can on on the other hand pray for the unity of all Christians.

ICXC
NIKA

I'm confused. I know there is a group in America which claims to be Syrian/Russian/Western orthodox and celebrates the liturgy in English. Is this who you're talking about? Don't know much on them.

N

Thank you. Well said. As much as I hope for and yearn for reunion of all Christians, I am not holding my breath till it happens. I doubt very much that I will live to see it -- at least, on this side of Heaven. So, in the meantime, I can pray for reunion. And I can work toward reunion by (1) being a better Christian and (2) trying to understand my fellow Christians.

-- John

No, Western Rite Orthodox use a version of the Anglican Liturgy that was corrected by the Orthodox. It is a Western Liturgy.