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I believe there is more than one liturgy sanctioned for use in the Western Rite. This [westernorthodox.com] web page probably has some useful information for understanding them.

Andrew

Dear Andrew,

Yes, the Antiochian Orthodox Church has two offical Western Rite liturgies - one for former Anglicans and the other for former RC's (Rite of St Gregory). Both are published in one liturgical volume.

Interestingly enough, Western Rite Orthodox priests I know of the Anglican tradition tell me they see the "Rite of St Tikhon" as just a "beginning" and the return to the Sarum Use as the fruition of their liturgical journey.

Alex

Dear Davidb,

Well, how are the Western Rite Orthodox "uniates" if they themselves wished to follow their Western liturgical heritage as Orthodox Christians?

Roman Catholic theologians participating in talks with the Orthodox have themselves affirmed that the "uniate" models of Catholic unity of the past are no longer valid for numerous reaons, including the exercise of force in various ways.

And uniatism is not only about HOW a group comes into union with a Church but also how their liturgical/ritual tradition is subsequently treated by the Church.

And our history with Rome and the Latin Catholic Church is not a good one by any stretch of the imagination, whether the Latinizations were received from the Latin Church or whether we ourselves preferred them due to having adopted a "uniate" mentality along the way.

And if you say, as you have, the Western Rite Orthodox should join a Church sharing their own liturgical culture, then what does your point say about Eastern Catholics who are in union with the Latin Church?

Are you saying EC's are not "liturgically natural" and so should ultimately aim at returning to their Mother Orthodox Churches?

Alex

Dear Professor Lauffer,

You raise excellent points!

In discussing this with Orthodox, an EC should always, in my view, point out that we are struggling to return to our Eastern traditions in every which way.

And also that we, at least, do what the Orthodox Church did for the first millennium of Christianity - commemorate the Pope at the Liturgy! (That's if you need to, sometimes, give as good as you get. My philosophy is that when it comes to such "ecumenical" discussions that often involve strident converts, it is "better to give than to receive!" ).

Cradle Orthodox don't say those kind of offensive things.

As for converts, there are some pointed quotes from the Psalms that could apply to them . . .

Alex

Dear Alex,
I will answer you question with a question.

How are we Byzantine Catholics Uniates when we follow our Eastern liturgical heritage?

Like Logos Teen, I must admit that I'm thoroughly confused by those Catholics who consider the Orthodox Churches to be part of the 'true' Church, and thus consider Orthodoxy to be as prudent a choice as Catholicism (Cardinal Kasper comes immediately to mind). As I understand the situation, these Churches are part of the Body of Christ in the same way that any who profess belief in Christ are linked to His Church as His Body. Sad and unfortunate though the situation may be, however, reality testifies to the fact that the Orthodox Churches are not part of Catholic Church, at least not in a canonical or an institutional sense.

As Alex pointed out, Orthodoxy certainly doesn't hold that Catholics are part of the true Church. This assumption is linked to the fundamental belief that the Church is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. Her members may share the blame in the countless schisms that have occurred over the centuries, but the Church does not and cannot, by her very nature, exist in a state of division. As eastern Catholics, we can rejoice that we are truly Catholic in every sense of the word. Animated by this joy, we must work tirelessly to restore communion with our Orthodox brethren with whom we share so much in common; not to piece together a fragmented Body of Christ, but to share with others the faith of the one Church, so that, God-willing, we will see the day when "all may be one."

God bless,

Chris

Dear Davidb,

I, for one, believe that when we follow our own liturgical heritage as true "Orthodox in communion with Rome" - then we are not "uniates."

Orthodox Christians who won't accept that are simply . . . well, converts!

(Do you share my disdain for some strident converts? How is your Carmelite formation coming along?)

Alex

Dear Chris,

Well, ultimately I think that the choice of a convert to go with either the Catholic or Orthodox Churches is something between them and God.

Both Churches have different perspectives on the matter, but when it comes down to grips, they each say they are the fullness of the Church, period.

I can see why certain converts, who come from a confusing ecclesial situation, often prefer Orthodoxy since RC ecumenical theology can often serve to deepen their confusion.

In Orthodoxy, when it comes to the true Church, it is the Orthodox Church and . . . nothing else.

As for Catholicism being "close" to Orthodoxy, the Orthodox believe that only works in horse-racing . . .

Alex