www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Vestments for a subdeacon

Because it looks better! :-)

anastasios

They were deacons. As was explained to me by a knowledgeable subdeacon, it is common in Russia in cathedrals, monasteries, places with lots of deacons, to have two deacons wear their orar crossed the whole Liturgy and be in charge of the trikiri and dikiri.

A friend of mine had a video of Pascha from sometime in the early '90s from the Epiphany Cathedral in Moscow. He was telling me for a while how the "subdeacons walk through the Royal Doors." I was skeptical, so he brought the tape over and we watched it. Well, they did go through the Royal Doors. I paused the video. "Dude, they're wearing cuffs! They're DEACONS!" "Oooh."

Here's a riddle: When can a subdeacon walk through the Royal Doors?

Answer: When he's about to be ordained to the diaconate.

-David

Good Morning and Happy Fourth of July!

As a Subdeacon, my vestments are 1)cassock (riassa or black robe), which I wore when ordained, and the 2) sticharion and 3) orarion (both of which I was vested in by the Bishop immediately after he finished the prayer). Antiochian Orthodox subdeacons do not normally wear the exoriassa (or outer robe), although I have one (as a gift from my Pastor), I do not normally wear it. Never do I wear a cassock in public.

I am single but with permission to marry (oeconomia). In St. Stephen's, a Ukrainian Orthodox (USA) subdeacon (single) friend that I studied with was told by his Bishop that he was a celibate. He also would wear black more than I normally would.

I've just returned from Albania as short term missionary with the Albania Autocephalous Orthodox Church (truly Holy Spirit Blessed), and did not say that I was a subdeacon. The reason for this is that there, subdeacons are (I believe) normally ordained right before the diaconate and are either married or celibate. Deacons there look no different than a priest (including headgear). I also shaved (by the way), so as to look like an ordinary layman.

In Arabic, both deacon and subdeacon are called deacon. The difference, a subdeacon is deacon with a candle, and a (full) deacon is deacon with a book. Even though the canonical sexual implications for both are normally the same, the Eastern Church (unlike the Western) considers the subdiaconate a minor order (unlike the diaconate). But then again, there is no distinct funeral service for a deacon. He is vested, has a censor placed in his right hand, and buried as a ... layman.

My Albanian experience was a life changing one, and I shall never forget the openess (and warmth) of His Beatitude Anastasios, or the absolute friendliness of His Eminence, Met. John of Korca (American theologically educated at Holy Cross in Brookline). Going to Albania, we also met His Eminence Met. Daniel of Iassy (Romania), and he is a very, very impressive man. All three speak fluent English (by the way). The latter two are younger, and bode well fo the future of Balkan Orthodoxy. Axios to All!

Regarding the subdianconate, after reading this, you're probably more confused than ever. But it really is dependent upon the jurisdiction, bishop and pastor. Fr. Harakas has written that the preconciliar preparations of the 70s (the Council never happened)suggested allowing deacons to marry (to ensure a future clergy in these times of shortage). However, those instances of oeconomia (if they exist) are few and far between. More common is the practice of being flexible with the subdiaconate.

Christ Is Among Us!

Three Cents

CIX!


Surely it is but the Twenty-First of June?

Dear Three Cents,

I certainly would hope that you would wear your clerical garb as frequently as possible.

There's no one I'd sooner bow to in the streets!

Alex

Thanks to everyone for such informative and interesting responses! I didn't expect such an interest, but this has been both fascinating and helpful.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Diak:
[QB]Adam, you should have a podriasnik (under-cassock with narrower sleeves) under the sticharion. The orarion is to be worn cross-wise across the shoulders and unlike the deacon is left in that position for the entire Liturgy or whatever service you are assisting at."

Okay. I have all that--or will, when Jaroslava finishes making it! She does some quite excellent work, I must say...

"The riassa with wide sleeves is to be worn over the podriasnik when you are serving and the wearing of the sticharion and orarion is not specifically prescribed. For example, when I do"

So the riassa is allowed, then: this seems to be the consensus.

If that is the case, then the only other thing thing to be cleared up is that of the cuffs. I have been told they are allowed for subdeacons, but also told by others they are reserved to the deacon/priest. Can anyone clarify?

"before my diaconal ordination. You'll find quickly that nice brocade vestment sets are not cheap."

No, siree! But my parish is footing the bill!
I am having everything made by this excellent woman in Fr. Roman Galadza's parish. It really is a labour of love for her, but the work is magnificent, and worth every penny.

"I would recommend a black velvet skufya, I have tried several and these seem to fit, feel and look the best. The skufyas with the quilted"

That's what I've ordered--but without the lining. Even in the dead of winter, it takes nothing for me to get hot so the fewer, and lighter, layers the better!

"winters. Speaking of Canada we're hoping to be in Canada in September,"

Where will you be, and for how long? As of September, I shall be a doctoral candidate at the Sheptytsky Institute in Ottawa, where I shall also be working. So if you are in the area, it would be great to meet.

To Edward:

Thanks for the Old Calendar reminder. Does that mean that I get the fireworks twice? (lol)
Actually, in Albania (I was told) that the Albanian and Greek parishes all are New Calendar. But the ethnic Macedonian and Montenegrin parishes (along their respective borders) may be using the Old Calendar). In truth, I didn't visit the Slavic parishes (in the extreme North and East), but did meet a Macedonian Albanian student at the Theological Academy in Shen Vlash Durres. He spoke Albanian (as well as Macedonian), and some English, too.

To Alex:

Thank you, your are far too kind! (Slava Isusu Xristu, Slava Na Viki Bohu!)

And To Adam:

A Subdeacon should not wear the cuffs (should he be ordained a full deacon, he wears them then). But on a practical note, for a few dollars more, you can order the cuffs with your sticharion and orarion. If that be the case, best to do it (just in case). Regarding the outer cassock (with the wide sleaves), consult your Pastor on that one. The comment about the Turkish imposition (and the fact that choir members wear wide sleaves) make that one more of a Pastoral call. I would not normally wear it, but I don't know your jurisdictioanl situation.

Axios!!!

Three Cents

Adam, the cuffs are definitely not appropriate for the subdeacon in our (Ukranian Catholic) tradition. But if you are approaching diaconate ordination you'll have them when the time is right and generally there is a discount if you buy an entire set rather than have individual pieces made later.

You're right, Yaroslava does absolutely wonderful work, Father Roman introduced me to her as well several years ago and I have a very nice podriasnik (my first) made by her and she has done some alterations for me as well. If you want some contacts, addresses, opinions, etc. on some other makers you can e-mail me privately.