www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Rubrics for Sunday/Communion

>>>At least in my parish, you are already on shaky ground by being a Latin; to come and then tell us we're doing wrong while more
than likely get you thrown out or at least told not to come back.<<<

I'm no Latin, and never was one. But, truth be told, there is a right way and a wrong way, and in many parishes they do it the wrong way. For a hundred years, the Holy See has been telling Eastern Catholics to do it the right way, and for whatever reason--a mistaken belief that the Latin way is superior, or that it is important to distinguish themselves from the Orthodox, many Eastern Catholics persist in doing things the wrong way. For this, I place the blame squarely at the doors of our leadership, which has dragged its feet in this matter for a century or more, and which has studiously ignored all instructions, directives, liturgical ordos and canon law.

By your thinking, if your parish has not yet restored infant communion, and I were to bring my daughter before the chalice, would you have the priest turn her away?

>>>What gives ANYONE the right to visit MY PARISH and tell me I'm worshipping wrong???<<<

You are worshipping wrong. If your bishop won't tell you, then read the applicable documents yourself.

#1 I knelt during the Epiclesis. The only time I stood was AFTER I received Communion. And as I stated, I was in a secluded part of the church where nobody else was sitting. I certainly wasn't trying to show anybody up.

#2 Thank you for putting thoughts in my head and words in my mouth. Perhaps you should look up a few passages about forgiveness and not dragging out conflicts.

Columcille

Columcille

I apologize if I have been "too strong". I belong to a small urban parish and we are FOREVER getting Latins who are disgruntled with their own parish life or are members of St.PiusX and other such organizations. My parish is constantly bombarded by "wanna-bes" who get upset when the Divine Liturgy is not in Latin, there are no statues and other things.

If they want to come and attend Divine Liturgy that's fine. To come and join the parish as a full member, that's fine too. To come and tell us what we're doing is not correct or you don't like it is something totatlly different. I say the same thing to the Orthodox. When you are in my church, do what we do or the door is that what way ---------->

Yes, I have had to defend my faith and my church to disgruntled Latins. I have explained patiently but firmly about my church. I have also cut people off at the knees and beaten them with the bloody stumps. If you approach me in a polite way, I will respond in kind; attack me and you're toast!

This said, it's time for me to take a break from this Forum. I really don't need all this at this point in my life.....

I let it up to God if He, in His infinite wisdom, leads me back here then so be it. If not, blessings to you all....

the least servant of the servants of God

mark

Dear Columcille,

#1 this wasn't clear to me, and I am sorry for that, I will read more closely next time.

#2 my last post wasn't directed at you, more so at others.

I know you weren't trying to show others up, but we must take responsibility for how others view what we do. At least this is my feeling on the matter.

You may do something that you think is right but others may believe that you are doing it to show them up. This is why I say, when you go somewhere you do as they do. Unless it is a proven error that they even know they are wrong doing.

As to your comment StuartK I think we must go back to a post by our good friend Anthony who was having problems with this issue. Kneeling at his very own parish. It seems that the Metropolitian came down on the side of the kneelers as such a change was drastic for them and they needed time to absorb this return to a Tradition that is older than their own tradition.

When we do this we must take into account that some people only know of kneeling and that they aren't as learned as us. When in this situation we must educate them but not destroy what they are doing, they must learn the correct way. Until such a time they must be allowed to practice the way they were taught.

This is where Romans 14 comes in for me. If you just make them do it with out them understanding then they do so in error. As Romans 14:22-23 says;

23 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God; happy is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves.
24 But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.


Your little brother in Christ,
David

[This message has been edited by dbalok (edited 06-25-2001).]

I understand completely. I am sorry.

Columcille

The Pope has told the Latins they should share the chalice with the laity. Next week, I think I will follow the Pope's instructions on improving a Church I don't belong to by going to a Mass and grabing the chalice from the priest. That will show those latin's how to properly run their church

Olga

With all due respect, good luck at finding a parish where the Chalice is NOT offered. I'm sure you will have trouble wrestling it away from one of the many women who are serving as (supposedly) Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers.

Obviously there are some pretty strong feelings that a Latin Catholic would raise the question about how to improve worship in a Byzantine parish. Should there be? I don't know. I certainly understand people having the attitude of "Get your own home in order and then we'll talk." (Of course, this doesn't prevent people from pointing out problems with the Latin Church's current practices, people who don't belong to the Latin Church. But I'll let that slide )

It reminds me of the Gospel reading at today's Mass. Remove he plank from your eye and then help your brother with the speck in his eye. Of course we should attend to our own problems, but this doesn't mean we can't point out things to other people.

Maybe the real problem is in how things were worded, I don't know.

Maybe after we have several more angry postings and several more apologies from Columcille things can move on.

Glad you got that out of your system? That was both untimely and a bit uncalled for.

Forgiveness and understanding seem to be in short supply around here. I've apologized several times for any possible offense that my post may have caused. If you people want to keep hurling stones at me, feel free. This is last thing I have to say on this matter.

Columcille

Dear Columcille,

Never mind, friend!

Actually, when Stuart comes to your defence, it's like having an armoured division surround you!

To paraphrase, "Stuart locuta est, Causa finita est."

Not bad for a non-Latin, eh?

Alex

>>>Not bad for a non-Latin, eh?<<<

Not bad at all. A lot better than my Ukrainian

Columcille

Medved,

Okay you go right ahead and take a break from this forum! You need it!

Too bad that you're a latinized Byzantine...a second class Byzantine.

Good day.

Dear spdundas,

Now, now, let's do unto others as we would have them do unto us, eh?

I say "eh" a lot because I'm Canadian . . .

Alex

I respectfully request that the Admin. close this thread. I don't see it serving any good purpose.

Again, I apologize.

Columcille

Good idea. It seems like some people are forgetting that we are Christians.