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There's a phrase I've seen mentioned here before (in Latin, I believe) that states the view that Eastern Catholic Churches should maintain their heritage `without alteration....' or something to that effect. Can anyone here roll that phrase off the tongue (or keyboard)?  Is there any interesting historical background to the phrase? Many thanks! David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com
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David,
Do you mean nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter ?
Andrij
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Yes, thanks! My forte is not Latin.
Does anyone know who coined the phrase? What are its historical origins?
David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com
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Nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter is a phrase coined by Pope Saint Pius X, in response to a question as to whether - and how - Greek Catholic worship should differ from Eastern Orthodox worship. Incognitus
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http://rumkatkilise.org/necplus.htm ... On May 22, 1908 Fr. Zerchaninov was appointed the Administrator of the Mission to the Russian Catholics. The decree from the Vatican Secretariat of State appointing him specifically states: "Therefore His Holiness commands the aforementioned priest Zerchaninov to observe the laws of the Greek-Slavonic Rite faithfully and in all their integrity, without any admixture from the Latin Rite or any other Rite; he must also see that his subjects, clergy and all other Catholics, do the same."
Subsequently, this command to observe strictly the Russian Orthodox Church's rituals and spirituality was confirmed during an audience with Pope Pius X attended by Mlle. Ushakova.
In response to Mlle. Ushakova's inquiry whether the Russian Catholics should hold firmly to their Russian synodal and Old Ritualist practices, or adapt these to the more "latinized" Galician liturgical forms, Pope Pius replied that the Russian Catholics should adhere to the synodal and Old Rite practices with the now famous response in Latin: "nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter" (no more, no less, no different). This principle continues to be observed by the Russian Catholic communities today. Whatever the broader intention, the actual statement was made in reference not to the Eastern or to Greek but to the Russsian Practice.
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Wow! "Nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter" (no more, no less, no different) was coined by Pope St Pius X!
So the idea of "Orthodox in communion with Rome" could claim papal support.
David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com
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Pius XI also later used this term, quoting his predecessor, when establishing the Russicum and its liturgical practices.
St. Andrey Sheptytsky also reminded the participants of the 1917 Sobor of this directive of St. Pius X as did St. Leonid Federov to his faithful.
St. Andrey also used this term quite often as ammunition against latinizing opposition to his work of producing the Ordo Celebrationis which was eventually promulgated by Rome before his death.
Speaking about St. Pius X, it is a little-known fact that he removed the restrictions on clerical celibacy through Cum Episcopo as Bishop Soter Ortynsky ordained some married men during that time without suspensions of the ordained priests.
The Roman hierarchy in the US took advantage of the deaths of Pius X and Bishop Soter to sway the Curia in their direction with regard to clerical celibacy.
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Dear Friends, Perhaps we Easterners should have our own version of an SSPX? It's a shame those papal comments weren't also specifically directed to the UGCC - that would have made even the most Latinized Ukie bishop an Eastern die-hard. Had they been, I believe Jordanville would be sending people to study with our Basilians! Really . . . Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: Perhaps we Easterners should have our own version of an SSPX? Where are the traditionalist Greek Catholic groups that reject "Americanization", "Catholicization", "de-ethnicization", "modernization", etc. but wish to maintain communion with Rome and don't think Vatican II was a robber council?
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Lemko, we're right here on this forum We need to come up with a name...
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Originally posted by Lemko Rusyn: Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: [b]Perhaps we Easterners should have our own version of an SSPX? I think I understand the sentiment, and the question. But I certainly don't think that 'groups' are a good idea at all. I don't think anyone really wants to follow that direction. We've had enough experience with 'groups' and divisions. We must resist 'groups' with the same zeal and fervor that we speak for the restoration of the integrity of the Liturgy. 'Groups' would do so much damage, and cement the division that reform and revision would cause. This is not at all what anyone wants. Rather, I think within the Church, and resisting names or labels, let us simply speak for the restoration (rather than the reform, editing or abbreviation) of the Liturgy. Let us speak for the ideal taught by Saint Pius, Pope Pius XI, Metropolitan Andrew, Blessed Theodore, and all lovers of the tradition. Nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter... an admonition from the Pope of Rome, and a saint. Definitely worth taking to heart.
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I think the early Christians would have fallen under the definition of a "group" as would early monastic foundations. As viewed by the civil authorities, the early Christians were a troublesome group at that.
"Groups" have started crucial renewal movements throughout the history of the church, most of these starting as grassroots communities of like-minded people. Granted there have also been 'groups' with negative results.
Can we not have a "group" of those faithful to Eastern Tradition? Faithful to nec plus, nec minus, nec aliter? Faithful to Orthodoxy in communion with Rome? Sometimes there are periods of stasis and "comfort" with the hiearchy and a little coordinated input from the community acting together as a "group" can get someone's attention. Like-minded people need reinforcement and community.
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: Dear Friends,
Perhaps we Easterners should have our own version of an SSPX?
Alex They already exist, they are called the Transalpine Redemptorists, and they are active in Ukraine.
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Originally posted by bisantino: Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic: [b] Dear Friends, Perhaps we Easterners should have our own version of an SSPX? Alex And , believe it or not, here.  And it was a loooooong time before folk realised who/what they were. Anhelyna
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That was a bit strange, Greek Catholic Transalpine Redemptorist priests trained by the Tridentine seminary of the SSPX in Switzerland...talk about Latinized :rolleyes: (No offence, Anhelyna )
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