The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Regf2, SomeInquirer, Wee Shuggie, Bodhi Zaffa, anaxios2022
5,881 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 105 guests, and 16 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,219
Posts415,296
Members5,881
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
#65556 03/14/03 01:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,240
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,240
Dear Alex,

I'm not sure if I should thank you for your periodic compliments which only help to increase my hat size, if you know what I mean shocked .

A relevant story is from my maternal grandparents, who both emmigrated from Albania as small children. Neither went to confession very much in the USA because the priests were:
(a) mostly all married [hence people feared that everything confessed might be subsequently relayed to Presbytera, and thus, known by everyone in town shortly thereafter],
(b) almost universally without theological training,
(c) occasionally immoral, drunkards, etc.
(d) or simply, as Albanians would say, "pa pjekur" or "uncooked." To serve as confessor, one should indeed be "well-cooked."

They relayed stories from their parents and grandparents of the holy monastics who travelled out from the monasteries through the mountains on foot and heard the confessions of the people. Upon returning to the monastery, they began to pray for these same people. And making the circuit again, they heard from the same, and returned to the monastery and prayed for the same. It was a relationship that spanned decades.

Nowadays, the holy monastics are few and invited rarely to parish settings. Bishops transfer our married clergy frequently so that they can get "experience." But if one keeps taking the dish out of the oven, it never cooks! As one of my professors from the old world said, "try preaching to and feeding the same flock for 25 years. Now that's experience!" And I would add, that is true love! Just like a marriage!

Perhaps this is a longing for "a golden era" that never can be recaptured, or perhaps, never existed at all. But as I ponder what is wrong with the confessional relationship in North America, the lack of therapy and the mechanical outlook that says "once per year during Great Lent," I often think back to these things.

I'll respond to your other question privately, when I have a good opportunity, but thanks for asking.

With love in Christ,
Andrew.

#65557 03/14/03 02:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Lutherans and Episcopalians, while encouraged to seek out private confession, have often used a communal rite in preparation for Holy Communion. That rite, in part, says "we confess that we have sinned against you by what we have done and what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves. For the sake of your Son, Jesus, Christ, have mercy on us. Forgive us, renew us and lead us so that we may delight in your will and walk in your ways to the glory of your Holy Name."

After compiling countless books/booklets on "making a good confession" since becoming Catholic I've pretty much gone back to relying on that prayer in order to examine my conscience before seeking reconciliation.

I so much appreciate Andrew and Alex pointing out that while confession removes "sins" it does not remove "sin". Its something I've forgotten too often and need to remember when I fall flat on my face after congratulating myself for having made the effort to go to confession.

Khrystyna

#65558 03/14/03 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 323
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 323
I used to struggle with severe scrupulosity, which made Confession agonizing for me. I can remember crying in my room at the age of 10 because I MAY have just commited a mortal sin. I would go over the "three necessary conditions for a sin to be mortal" in my mind over and over. I was in a severe state of spiritual depression for many years until I finally gave up on everything religious when I was about 15 or so. By the Grace of G-d, my scruples left me and I am once again united to the Church. I do remember that period of 5-7 years as being the worst in my life. Oh sure; I was enjoying every vice I could find, but I had no inner peace, And I knew why....

Anyway, on to my point. I don't feel the need to detail every sin I commit(time, place, what shirt I was wearing, etc.) I examine my concience, confess EVERY sin, asked forgiveness for the sins I have sincerly forgotten about, and then depart in peace knowing G-d has forgiven me.

I always keep a "proverb" in my head for when I have a "biggy" to confess: if you weren't ashamed to commit the sin in front of G-d, you shouldn't be ashamed to confess it to another sinner.

Columcille

#65559 03/14/03 06:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Dear Reader Andrew,

How fascinating!

The Ukrainian saying that approximates, I believe, the Albanian "uncooked" verse is, "newly-baked" which means untried and therefore not to be trusted . . . wink

The Ethiopian priests often come to the homes of their parishioners where they hear their confessions, as I understand.

And yes, the role of the Orthodox Elder was always most important as a confessor and spiritual guide.

My wife has, I'm sorry to say, a fear of confession and she grew up in a priest's family, priests on both sides, where she heard priests sometimes joke about the "one I had in confession today - would you believe that . . .".

I too heard about men fearing to tell sexual sins especially to married priests for fear that all the women in the parish would find out.

But if that happened to me, I wouldn't mind . . . smile

They'd probably make me the head of a parish association . . . wink

Alex

#65560 03/14/03 06:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Dear Khrystyna,

Yes, there is a beautiful passage in the "Way of a Pilgrim" about confession along those same lines.

The Pilgrim is told by a Father Confessor that he has ommitted to mention some chief sins, namely that he hates God and his neighbour, hates the Word of God and one other that I forget (no, not conveniently! ; smile .

When the Pilgrim is upset that the priest would consider that he would "hate God," the priest then counters with: "If you loved God, you would always be thinking of Him, and praying to Him. But you think of Him rarely, and prayer is a tremendous chore for you . . ."

"And you hate your neighbour because you don't go out of your way to help him and if he should receive the slightest good fortune you are jealous of him . . ."

Such a reflection really does make for a great confession!

Alex

#65561 03/14/03 06:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Dear Columcille,

I empathize with you completely. One of the crosses I am bearing since becoming Catholic is the fact that my very beloved husband of 25 years is not currently involved in the life of the church, although he was raised Catholic and attended parochial school. It was a long effort on my part to beg him to seek an annullment of his former marriage after we had been married in a civil ceremony for almost 20 years because I wanted to enter the Catholic Church. He did and the annullment was granted.

Like many converts I went through that foolish and giddy period of bubbling and dancing about how wonderful it was to be Catholic and how kind and understanding the priests I had encountered in confession were. He said that's nice, but you weren't there in the old days. And he's right. Among many issues he needs to resolve for himself are the heavy legalisms he encountered while growing up that gave him a very negative image of God. He's kind of dancing on the edges these days, waiting and watching, I think, to see if my own commitment to the Church will prove to be a permanent thing and he is beginning to discover that many parishes are warm and welcoming and that we are all sinners in the household of God in need of His mercy. In the meantime I pray daily that the Lord will stir up the waters of his own baptism again and help me to help him see that a living relationship with Christ CAN be lived out in union with the Church.

Khrystyna

#65562 03/14/03 07:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Dear Khrystyna,

I empathize with you completely.

There was an interesting novel whose title escapes me that I read in high school.

It was written from the point of view of someone who was not involved with the Church, but whose entire family was and was trying to convert him . . .

Even his youngest daughter, before going to Mass, would pray all the prayers in her missal for the "Conversion of the heathen," and then bend down and look into her father's eyes to see if she could detect any change in him wink

And his wife nudged his heart when he quipped to her, "What would your life be like without hell?" and she responded, "Never mind, I know you'll get to heaven somehow - or else, it just won't be 'heaven. . .'"

The road to his spiritual recovery started when a seminarian, under punishment for some 'crime' told him, "You are a good man."

Although my wife is a believer, she is obviously not as holy as me . . . smile

She doesn't have a collection of prayerbooks, icons, a mini-theology library that would make many seminaries green with envy, an Ethiopian mitre and prayer-stick, as well as a censer with bells on . . .

But I know she is more devout than I and I let her know that I need all those "props" to be what she is naturally . . .

And one day I hope to reach her heights.

People who aren't overly interested in religion just don't stand a chance with me, you know . . . smile

Alex

#65563 03/14/03 08:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Quote
She doesn't have a collection of prayerbooks, icons, a mini-theology library that would make many seminaries green with envy, an Ethiopian mitre and prayer-stick, as well as a censer with bells on . . .
Dear Alex,

Can you think of even one reason why you should not, at the end of your earthly sojourn, be translated directly into heaven?????? wink

I do believe God is not finished with him yet and yes, your observation is very wise that sometimes all it takes is for someone to say "you are a good man (woman)." The priest who blessed our marriage was a very warm and welcoming servant of God, thank goodness. Perhaps the seeds have been sown.

In the meantime, do you think I should have my name changed to .... Monica?? wink

Khrystyna

#65564 03/14/03 08:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Dear Khrystyna,

Only if you are married to a man with the sensual appetite of a pre-conversion Augustine! smile

Which I'm sure you are . . .

Speaking of sowing seeds, you know!

Alex

#65565 03/14/03 09:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Well Alex, he's a strapping 6 foot 1 Polish-American with a decidedly Slavic, love of life nature! I'll leave it at that! wink (there you go again, making me smile -- it's simply not allowed during Lent for us Latins, you know!)


Khrystyna

#65566 03/14/03 09:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,586
Likes: 1
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,586
Likes: 1
Khyrystina and Alex

Thank you for cheering me up and making me smile.

I certainly needed it today

Anhelyna

#65567 03/14/03 09:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315
Likes: 21
Dear Anhelyna and Khrystyna,

You are not the only women on whose faces I've put big smiles on, you know . . . smile

And, yes, we'll leave it at that . . .
smile
Alex

#65568 03/14/03 09:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,586
Likes: 1
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,586
Likes: 1
Too true we will biggrin biggrin

It's Lent ----- and we are supposed to have long faces and wear sack cloth and ashes - NOT wink

#65569 03/14/03 09:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Dear Anhelyna,

Don't you agree that this forum is just a bit of a taste of heaven? With some mirth, merriment and serious discussion, to have so many sisters and brothers in Christ communicating with one another is truly a joy! biggrin

Khrystyna

#65570 03/14/03 10:05 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Michael,

"Being a Latin I have not availed myself of the opportunity to confess using the Byzantine practice."

Don't delay, dear brother, Father Loya is a wonderful confessor. Tell him of your dread of confessing. His counsel is wise.

Dan Lauffer

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5