|
2 members (2 invisible),
307
guests, and
28
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,219
Posts415,295
Members5,881
| |
Most Online3,380 Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941 |
Dave:
Thanks for the links. That's rather than the hand held ratchet was what I was looking for.
And gentlemen: What is this "fashion show"; That I don't recall.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 |
At Passion Matins it is a Greek Catholic fad to put on a different complete set of vestments for every Passion account, starting with white and ending up in purple/black.
So in the middle there is a progression from white to gold to green to blue to red, with infinite local variations. The intermediate colors are whatever order the priest wishes as long as it starts with white or gold on the first Gospel and ends up with purple/black on the last one.
So while the stikhera are being sung between the Passion accounts, the priest is flailing about the sanctuary trying to rush on the next set of vestments.
I was describing this to an Orthodox priest friend once and he sincerely thought I was kidding. :rolleyes:
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941 |
Wow. That's a lot of vestments; I would think that for the most part we were too poor for that.
Do you recall when the Orthodox change from red to gold?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 |
They usually don't change. Red is worn at Holy Thursday Vesperal Liturgy (sometimes purple) and purple/black is worn for all of Good Friday, Strasti, Royal Hours, and Vespers.
The change from purple to gold or white occurs at the Prokimenon of the Holy Saturday Vesperal Liturgy or Vespers (beginning the vigil of Pascha).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373 |
At Church of the Resurrection parish (Ruthenian Metropolia), Fr. Joseph has replaced the Latin "kalatala" with the Greek "semantron". It is struck just as the monks would when calling fellow monks to prayer. I think this is a good substitution, seeing that most Ruthenian parishes aren't used to bell ringing on Great Friday.
I must admit, the "kalatala" adds a very powerful sound effect to the Great Friday "Plaschanica" procession, especially if the particular church has good acoustics. I remember being erroneously told that it represented the sound of Christ being nailed to the Cross!
"Bla-ho-o-braz-nyj I-o-sif....(clack-clack, clack-clack)"
Ung-Certez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 |
I've been through the kalatala and bells, and I must say for me nothing is as powerful while making the procession on Great and Holy Friday as a well-rung and synchronized perezvon.
Hearing the bells, lowest to highest, slowly rung, thinking of the self-emptying of our Lord and the profundity of Passion, is an experience that words cannot convey. And then all of them rung together once after the plashchanitsya is placed.
The boards to me during the procession only reinforce what we have lost through latinizations. Were they used to invite to prayer at the beginning of a service, like the semandron, that is much different and I love them when used for that purpose.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941 |
I must admit, the "kalatala" adds a very powerful sound effect to the Great Friday "Plaschanica" procession ... the sound of Christ being nailed to the Cross! "Bla-ho-o-braz-nyj I-o-sif....(clack-clack, clack-clack)" My impressions exactly. And UC, you can imagine the resonace of the clack-clack in St. Mary's Johnstown. Very Powerful.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373
Member
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,373 |
Djs, It also can be dangerous. Growing up as an altar boy, the honor of "ringing" the "kalatala" was always given to one of the older (high school Senior) altar boys. I even remember one Great Friday procession where the bolt that held the hammer to the wooden base broke and sent the hammer flying through the air and then ricocheted off the marble baldochino. A hazardous duty indeed!
Ung-Certez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,941 |
That was tough duty. Eighth-graders for us. The wooden pivot would swell and make the swing action stiff. You really had to swing; if you didn't, the action would get stuck and the rhythm of the clacking would be broken with the dead silence of a clack missed. And everyone recognized that silence, the unmistakable sound of a wimpy swing. The pressure was enormous. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517 |
Vestments - the Greek and Middle East tradition has the priest wearing bright vestments at the Holy Saturday Orthros (held in practice on Good Friday evening).
Incognitus
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 60
Moderator
|
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 60 |
I am grateful to all who contributed to making this thread so substantive.
Among the many fascinating points made along the way is the observation that what takes place in a given parish is often quite different from what is presented in liturgical books.
In that context, I would propose that this Forum could make a modest contribution to the "careful research" necessary to make informed decisions. A careful description of the range of liturgical practices for Lazarus Saturday, Palm Sunday, and Holy Week coiuld provide useful information on a variety of fronts.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 674
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 674 |
Originally posted by Diak:
Hearing the bells, lowest to highest, slowly rung, thinking of the self-emptying of our Lord and the profundity of Passion, is an experience that words cannot convey. Should that read, highest to lowest?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1
Junior Member
|
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1 |
I am esp. interested in how Passion Week is observed in different parishes, how it was observed in the past, and the possibilities of renewal. Was the moment when the priest comes out chanting "Come receive the light... ", a moment which now comes at midnight and in the middle of Matins, ever part of the Liturgy of St. Basil, and got transposed as the services shifted over time? Because, it seems to me that the lack of such a dramatic moment in the Liturgy of St. Basil is what keeps it from being the Paschal Vigil in popular function, even if that is what it was historically. "Christ is risen" is sung after that moment; it does not appear in the Liturgy of St. Basil.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 335
Former
|
Former
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 335 |
"Was the moment when the priest comes out chanting "Come receive the light... ", a moment which now comes at midnight and in the middle of Matins, ever part of the Liturgy of St. Basil,..."
No. First of all, it's not in the middle of Matins; it's between the Midnight Office and Matins. That aside, that verse is only a few centuries old ... far newer than the usual mispractice of having vespers in the morning ... and is only used in certain places.
To renew the Passion Week services, I suggest reverting to the written Typicon (of St. Sabbas') which reflects Byzantine usage fully developed but before things commenced decaying into the mess we now have in parishes and, even, most monasteries.
I made several lengthy posts a few weeks ago on this forum describing the Pascal Vigil and why the Liturgy of St. Basil on the Great Sabbath is not part of Pascha.
Photius, Reader
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
Member
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517 |
According to strict usage, the changing of the vestments from dark to light is done during the chanting of "Arise, O God, and judge the earth", which replaces the Alleluia after the Epistle at the Holy Saturday Vespers and Divine Liturgy of Saint Basil. If done well, the changing of the vestments is very effective.
On the issue of the banging during the last day or so of Holy Week, I'm with our brother Diak - let's stick to a nice, peaceful bell toll instead of having something that sounds like a machine gun going off in our ears!
Incognitus
|
|
|
|
|