www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Sorry for everything

Dear Garrett,

To defend oneself against bad manners is not to have bad manners oneself.

I've apologised - what more do you want?

Alex

Dear Alex,

Let it go.

You are NOT in the wrong.

What IS wrong is that someone came here and has created havoc, disagreement and dissension where there usually is peace. I have always contended that attitudes can be very catchy in any environment. She has apologized and seen her fault, and for that I commend her and respect her, for that is a VERY difficult thing to do...

Not many people can admit to fault of any kind.

Let us now resume posting and conversating in peace, letting bygones be bygones, because peace and love are a gift of the Holy Spirit.

Respectfully,
Alice

I don't know, I kind of like her, but then again I like fiery people. Not that I, a Byzantine papist, agree with her, and I hope she reconsiders and studies history with a more open mind. Heck, the history of the last 40 years, which finds Rome alone taking an uncompromising stand against artificial contraception, despite the dissent of her children in Europe and North America, should lead her to discern the truth.
And Alex, please overcome your hurt feelings, which have gotten you in so much trouble in the past. Let it go, don't get all deluded... :p :p
[Is that enough graemlins to indicate that I am affectionaltely joking with you?]

Please let Alex be Alex, we all need a Canadian PHD Ukrainian spin on life....

Just like brother Coalesco with his avatar thingy.

We get a might dingy with our particular thingys.

james

to he.. with spell check

By all means let Alex be Alex; I just want him to be the best Alex he can be, not getting all delusional about Jennifer, who reminds him of his wife, etc....
:rolleyes:

I just sense from that statement about his wife, that Alex would have to get up pretty early to get ahead of Mrs. Alex. She sounds like she might just be a very sharp lady who has him figured out! LOL.

Yes, it's me.

No. If that were my motivation I would have stayed away, because letting you all continue this way would have been a much more effective way to achieve that result, to be honest.

What concerns me is the quality of a person's discernment process, much more that what the ultimate destination may be. People who are in a discernment process should be treated gingerly ... they are in a place where there can be a lot of uncertainty, doubt, insecurity and the like. Strong responses, even of encouragement, but particularly of criticism, can skew someone's discernment process. Those of us who are asked questions by someone in a discernment process should make every effort to answer them in a straightforward and honest way, but (in my opinion) should bend over backwards to avoid doing or saying anything that can -- by virtue of its disruptiveness -- interfere in that person's very personal process.

Folks who are in discernment mode are often somewhat curt, often somewhat forceful, often confrontational, to be honest. I know that because of my own past. It's a rough period at best. My concern is that people should recognize this and try to avoid doing or saying anything that could exacerbate what is already a difficult time for the person who is trying to discern.

B

Nothing, Alex...you've done the right thing! Just keep on teachin' and preachin'.


Logos Teen

Dear Brendan the Navigator, Esq.

Well, you've lost nothing of your old feistiness!

And that is a good thing!!

We're not afraid of anyone becoming Orthodox, we just ask for some courtesy and respect!

And Jennifer Esq. doesn't need a lawyer to defend her. She can stand on her own two feet and alienate all the people she wants on her lonesome!

That's our only point and my only point.

My other point is that if the papacy is seen as autocratic, then there are Orthodox jurisdictions with heads who can be even more autocratic - or so some priests tell me.

I don't think other Orthodox boards such as Orthodox Net would tolerate discourteous comments from posters. ANd I don't think we here should, just because we're Catholics and are supposed to be all "warm and fuzzy."

And didn't you once say that EC's are "relativistic?"

You . . . you . . . lawyer you!

Anyway, if you and the Orthodox can meet Jennifer's spiritual needs etc., and aren't offended by her, then everyone will be happy!

All the best, Navigator, Esq.!

Your admirer, always,

Alex (Orthodox in communion with the Papacy)

Dear Friends,

As for all your comments - I agree!

No delusions there . . .

(I guess I must have some, if that comment by Jennifer got to me so much. And I think there is a lot of truth to what Iconophile says about feisty women! I'm married to one!)

May the Lord protect our Holy Father the Pope!

Alex

Alex:

Jennifer's case is all over at OC.net and understandably so because our Lady Counsellor is a long-standing member there.

But of all the Orthodox responders/advisers at the OC, Brendan, Esq., rises above head and shoulders and am I glad for him and for Jennifer!

As always, Brendan is the epitome of a Catholic (RC->Melkite) convert to Orthodoxy: without rancor nor bitterness directed to his former faith. If Jennifer follows the example of Brendan, everything would be fine.

I think we drew Brendan here because of some allegations at OC that Byscath has "mistreated" Jennifer gravely to which, I say, NOT!

I trust Brendan agrees with me.

Amado

LORD JESUS CHRIST, SON OF THE LIVING GOD, HAVE MERCY ON US SINNERS!

Dear Brendan,

You and some others here have the advantage of a much longer association, from OC.net, with Jennifer, and can therefore infer a discernment process. It is not surprising that some folks here, without that longer history, saw an abrupt argumentative entrance as mere trolling.

Now there are fascinating parallel discussions, with lots of fascinating commentary over at OC.net about these threads, this board, as well as the usual pontifications about BC's and the BC church. Now seriously, what, really, could be more "weird"?

Tony issued a rebuke - about us blaming the Orthodox. The remark was made in response to a comment by Jakub, who posts on both fora and knows the score. IMO, Jennifer came here not just with a strong personality, but with a pe-formed attitude. And notwithstanding Tony's protestations, it's clear where, at least in part, she got it. I am grateful that Jennifer was willing to retract the stepchild mockery.

And I hope that people here are restrained enough to help kindly with her discernment. After a little more deprogramming, who knows what is possible?

Dear djs:

I agree!

Jennifer is just "torn between two lovers!"

Amado

(Pardon me for the trite expession.)

Alex,

We haven't disagreed in such a long while, I hate to break the streak, but I have to.

The issue, as I see it, is not that "we're Catholics", because we aren't just: the majority of us are of the East, both Catholics (of a variety of stripes) and Orthodox (of just as many stripes); additionally, we are Latin Catholics and Protestants. Jennifer, I believe (I hope), unwittingly, managed to alienate significant numbers of folk, touching most every group among us.

The crux of the problem was not that she had doubts about the primacy of the Pope; that is an issue for most of our Orthodox brethren and can be problematic for some of the Eastern Catholics among us as well, at least from time to time. During my tenure here, albeit only a year (but also during the considerable time that I lurked before ever registering), folks have raised this as well as other issues and, coming to grips with them, have made decisions about the path that they would follow. Some have remained where they were; others have moved between Catholicity and Orthodoxy (in both directions); still others have shifted from West to East or from Protestantism to Catholicism.

And, with one notable exception (of an angry young man), we have supported folks in their periods of discernment and their choice, regardless of what it was. I can think of several folks here who have made changes on this board, before our eyes, and are held in just as much respect and affection now as they were before (one is a highly respected member of this community and among those whom I consider my closest friends here).

Jennifer, I hope, understands that none of this was about her doubts regarding the papacy - it was all about how she approached the issue. She didn't ask opinions or seek to discuss her doubts; instead, she attacked the concept and argued with any who expressed different opinions.

I hope that, before formalizing her decision to move to Orthodoxy, Jennifer gives careful consideration to all the concerns she has - for her sake and the sake of those to whom she joins. Not because I think it isn't the right thing for her to do or because I think that it is wrong, but because she needs to first reflect and pray, asking questions and truly seeking opinions - not challenging.

Many years,

Neil