www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Eve as co-damnatrix

How about "co-peccatrix" then, meaning sinner along with Adam? (See, for example, Rev. Stefano Maria Minelli, Founder of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, "Mary Coredemptrix in Sacred Scripture," in Dr. Mark I. Miravalle, Editor, "Mary - Coredemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocate: Theological Foundations II - Papal, Pneumatological, Ecumenical, 1996, Queenship Publishing Company, Santa Barbara, CA, p. 79.)

In 1866, Cardinal Newman distilled the belief of the Fathers:

Eve had a definite, essential position in the First Covenant. The fate of the human race lay with Adam; he it was who represented us. It was in Adam that we fell; though Eve had fallen, still, if Adam had stood, we should not have lost those supernatural privileges which were bestowed upon him as our first father. Yet though Eve was not the head of the race, still, even as regards the race, she had a place of her own; for Adam, to whom was divinely committed the naming of all things, entitled her "the Mother of all the living," a name surely expressive, not of a fact only, but of a dignity; but further, as she thus had her own general relation to the human race, so again had she her own special place as regards its trial and its fall in Adam. In those primeval events, Eve had an integral share. "The woman, being seduced, was in the transgression." She listened to the Evil Angel; she offered the fruit to her husband, and he ate of it. She co-operated, not as an irresponsible instrument, but intimately and personally in the sin; she brought it about. As the history stands, she was a "sine-qua-non," a positive, active cause of it. And she had her share in its punishment; in the sentence pronounced on her, she was recognized as a real agent in the temptation and its issue, and she suffered accordingly. In that awful transaction there were three parties concerned - the serpent, the woman and the man; and at the time of their sentence, an event was announced for the future, in which the three same parties were to meet again, the serpent, the woman and the man; but it was to be a second Adam and a second Eve, and the new Eve was to be the mother of the new Adam: "I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed." The Seed of the woman is the Word Incarnate, and the Woman, whose seed or son He is, is His mother Mary. This interpretation, and the parallelism it involves, seem to me undeniable; but at all events, (and this is my point) the parallelism is the doctrine of the Fathers, from the earliest times; and, this being established, we are able, by the position and office of Eve in our fall, to determine the position and office of Mary in our restoration (John Henry Newman, "A Letter to the Rev. E.B. Pusey, D.D., on His Recent Eirenicon," Longmans, Green, Reader, and Dyer, 1866, pp. 33-46, in Sister Eileen Breen, ed., "Mary-The Second Eve: from the Writings of John Henry Newman," Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., Rockford, Illinois, 1982, p. 2).

Dear Friends,

The thing is that "Co-Damnatrix" is rather strident and very "UnEastern" as well.

Humanity wasn't "damned" after the Fall of Adam and Eve. Human nature fell and sinfulness plagued it, as well as death.

If we were "damned," Christ would not have come to save us.

Interestingly enough, the Eastern Church venerates Adam and Eve as Saints - the West never gave them the honours of sainthood.

Alex

Dear Alex,

Maybe we are using the word "damned" differently. The Latin word means to curse. Along with that, damnation incurs seperation from the benevolent presence of God. Immediately after the sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed (damned) each of our parents accordingly and drove them out of His presence (Eden).

In the Latin sense of "damno", Adam and Eve were damned. I guess the Eastern Church looks it from a different perspective and I respect that. Also, being under the curse of Adam and Eve (namely death), doesn't mean that we are not able to receive redemption. We were damned/cursed and Christ came to be that curse for us. As it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree."

Alex, I know we don't disagree but maybe we are just using terms differently.

yours in Christ,
Marshall

Dear Marshall,

You are right, sorry.

I just think this whole discussion should be "cast out of the garden" of this Forum . . .

Alex