www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Revised Julian Calendar Churches ?

Dear Friends,

In a conversation I had with an EO friend of mine recently, he said that the Greek Orthodox Church is the only Church that uses the Revised Julian Calendar.
Can anyone help me with this, as I believe, there are others that use this liturgical calendar.

Thanks,

Brad

Brad,

Inform your friend that he is wrong. The churches following the Revised Julian Calendar are:

Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople
Patriarchate of Alexandria
Patriarchate of Antioch
Church of Greece
Church of Cyprus
Patriarchate of Bulgaria
Patriarchate of Romania
Orthodox Church in America
Church of Finland (also follows New Paschalion)

I hope this helps.

I may have forgotten someone, but this list is from memory.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Thanks for the info Father.


Brad.

The Bulgarian-Greek Catholic Church, the Romanian-Greek Catholic Church, the Hellenic-Greek Catholic Church al follow the Revised Julian Calendar (without the Western Paschalion).

There was a time where the Bulgarian and Romanian Catholics held the Old-Calendar in some parishes, while the Orthodox had adopted it in all of them (except the rebel ones).

The Roman Western-Rite Catholic Church in Greece also follows the "Revised Julian Calendar" did you know that? :p

If the Church of Finland follows the Western date for Pascha as well as the fixed feasts,one can say that it follows the Gregorian Calender.St.John of San Francisco when a bishop in Western Europe did allow the Dutch mission then under ROCOR to use the New Calender ,including the Western Paschalion.I read about all Latin Rite churches in Greece celebrating Pascha with the Orthodox majority.Somewhere I read that in Tsarist Russia, all Roman Catholic living outside of the Kingdom of Poland(which would have been the Eastern part of Modern Poland, with signifigant parts of Ukraine,Belarus',and Lithuania)used to celebrate all feasts according to the Julian Calender.Anyone know anything about this?

Hello folks,

Enlighten my ignorant mind.

Revised Calendar? What does that mean?

Does that mean all the feasts on Gregorian Calendar EXCEPT for Pascha/Great Fast which is on Julian Calendar?

Many thanks,

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dear SPDundas,

That is right, all fixed feasts are accoridng to the Gregorian calendar, i.e., Nativity, Theophany, etc. Those related to the Triodion through the Pentecostarion i.e. the Great Fast, Holy Week, Pascha, etc., are according to the Julian calendar.

I hope this clears things up for you.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Those of us who keep the original Church calendar, or Julian, are simply, just those who KEEP the Church calendar. We have not the desire to bow to the innovations of the West, or of the modern era of bad ecumenism, but see this as simply obedience to the Truth and Canons of Holy Tradition...nothing more...nothing less. Those who , as EO, have decided to succumb to the ease of...the modern era,...for convenience, or...whatever reason, are swept up in 'innovation'. Just to balance this thread, a bit..! mik

Happy Synaxis of Saint John!

Incognitus

Thanks for the post mike. Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just curious and really trying to understand the continued use of the Julian calendar, and have not been able to get a good, logical reason for it.

If we are living in a world which utilizes the Gregorian calendar, I think everyone would agree that living in America we are doing that in our daily lives. Why would we not utilize the Modified calendar? I completely agree with why Pascha is celebrated seperately and the Whole Church, (East & West) should be celebrating the Feast of Feasts as to the cannonically prescribed date. (If I remember correctly Solar as opposed to Lunar) My understanding is celebrating say the Nativity of Christ on January 7th is actually celebrating it on December 25th on the Julian Calendar. I can understand why when the Gregorian Calendar was imposed it would have been a big deal to not go with the tide and the Western arrogance which imposed its useage. However, hundreds of years later, I can't understand why people, and I know there are alot of them, still utilize the julian calendar. I don't see a civil calendar as a matter of faith. I view it similar to how I view Sts. Cyril and Methodious and using venacular to reach people. Would we not be more successful reaching people where they are? We need to first reach them to make them "see the light".

Again, I am not looking for anytype of argument on this I am just really trying to understand the continued Julian useage. I have been regularly attending Orthodox services for the past 3 months. Some observe Julian some observe Modified. I know January 7th pulled in people from local OCA churches that wanted to celebrate on the Julian Calendar and I know December 25th pulled some to the OCA from other jurisdictions utilizing the Julian Calendar. I just find it strange and confusing why a family with children would belong to a parish but not celebrate a Holy Day such as Christmas with their own parish family.

Any help from anyone would be appreciated.

Because it's written, that's why.

Job,

That is correct.

In the case of Orthodoxy, I think this is more of an internal issue than it is an imposition of the West. It�s actually interesting though that even in the West not everybody adopted the Gregorian Calendar right away. I think England continued to use the Julian in to the 17th or 18th century for instance.

I see the calendar as a matter of praxis and not as an article of faith.

I think there�s a few legitimate ones. The first is that the Julian Calendar was part of the established tradition of the church in to the 20th century. In my opinion, based on my understanding of what happened, I think the change was poorly implemented and done without the consent of all of the churches. I think it was also seriously misjudged as to how deeply attached many people were to the existing calendar. I think that miscalculation led to a lot of bitterness and division.

The calendar change also does do some strange things to the established patterns of feasts and fasts when used in conjunction with the Eastern Paschalion. The apostles fast for instance last year was about three days long for those using the New Calendar.

I think a lot of more traditional Orthodox also link the calendar change with other changes they are not happy with. Rightly or wrongly, it can be something of a touchstone issue in that regard.

I�m sure everyone has their own reasons, and it does create some odd situations. The OCA cathedral in Washington celebrates both dates for instance. Most of the OCA is on the New Calendar, but the whole diocese of Alaska is on the Old. Those are some examples.

I know a lot of people in particular are attached to the later celebration of Nativity because they view it as having more spiritual significance than the western celebration which has become increasingly materialistic. We�re on the New Calendar, but we keep everything out until the Old Calendar Nativity is over. Personally I would prefer to be on the Old Calendar, but I love our parish and wouldn�t switch just for that reason.

Andrew

Thank You!

Dear Mike,

I kindly ask you to be more sensitive about this topic. Let us, as charitable followers of Christ, respect the differences of our brethren and not judge, label, and condescendingly theorize what the reasons for that different calendar might be.

Let us remember, that within the diversity of the Church, once united, but now estranged, there are many different ways that one can feel comfortable on their Christian journey and in their spiritual growth. Whichever way that may be, what is ultimately important is that it brings them close to the embrace of the Church, and thus, closer to Christ and their personal salvation.

On a personal level, I have to say that I really don't think that it will matter much what church calendar we followed when we stand before the awesome judgement seat of our Lord.

In Christ,
Alice, Moderator

While it is true that most of the material in defence of the traditional Calendar is in languages that many of us may not find accessible, there are a few good, if small, books and articles available in English.

To put it in a nutshell: the Typicon was developed in terms of the Julian Calendar. Attempting to transpose the Typicon to the Gregorian Calendar does not work, and creates some bizarre aberrations.

No, the Calendar is not a matter of faith. However, it is a matter of fidelity.

Incognitus