www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Is the Bride of Christ being purified?

Dear Mary,

I apologise for my earlier cockiness, but I've been away from this forum for a few days, dealing with personal issues.

I can tell you whatever you wish about my background, I'm a cradle EC with a long-standing interest in EC and Orthodox theology and liturgy, I'm a sociologist by training with a doctorate in it.

I'm also interested in the differences between EC and RC theology and Theosis is certainly one matter where the respective differences do come out.

Theosis has long been integrally related to Hesychasm which has been castigated by RC theologians until recently as a form of quietism etc.

My only issue is whether we do justice to the real differences between East and West on Theosis.

I"ve read through this thread and examined the other you've mentioned.

Again, I don't see how Theosis relates to RC theology in the same way as it does in EC/Orthodox spirituality.

The Catechism is a statement of Catholic truth, but it is also cast in a Latin perspective and we EC's have the right to "recast" it in theological perspectives that are familiar to us and our Eastern traditions. This is also why the UGCC has issued a catechism of its own that more properly goes into issues such as Theosis.

That's where I am basically coming from.

I also don't see how my earlier "cocky" statement can throw things off course.

If they do for you, then I would respectfully suggest that you are way too intense.

Alex

Mary,

I'm just wondering since Theosis is an Eastern concept why are you spending your limited time on it? I'm just curious. Is Theosis really a Western concept?

Dan Lauffer

Dear Mary,

The site you recommend refers to "Western and Eastern Rite Catholics."

This is unfortunately an error as we EC's see ourselves not in terms of "rites" but in terms of "Particular Churches."

The term "rites" suggests that only the outward liturgical expressions differ among Catholics, and not their spiritualities.

Just a comment - I know your time is limited.

In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, I've come to realize how limited my time is as well.

Alex

Yes. I had family in the city of New Orleans too, and my daughter was there helping aging members.

I am not really interested in what you think of my 'intensity' but thank you for allowing me that insight into your own persona.

Mary

I recognize by your phrasing here that you realize that there is more than one appropriate and accurate way of using the term 'rite' or 'rites'

Mary

Mary,

I've been taught that we are not simply a "rite". Could you explain your usage?

Dan L

I did want to mention that I used the term substance-free and emotive. I find your language here offensive in the extreme and would never use it to describe anyone. But then I am just that kind of woman.

Mary

Dear Mary,

Actually, the term you used was "cocked hat."

If you find any offense, that is the source of what I perceived to be your ultimate meaning.

I apologise for having given you offense, it is just that "cockiness" is a term I've heard to describe myself by others.

It is just natural for me to bring that word with the phrase you used above.

I apologise, once again, if that was not your meaning.

But I still don't see how you've adequately responded to the issue of "rite" when used on that site you've pulled up for our apparent edification!

Alex the Emotive Cocked Hat

Yes. Called either 'theosis' or 'divinization'

Mary

It has been my error in not realizing soon enough that you are a shil for Mr. Lauffer.

My apologies for treating you and your commentary in good faith. I will be far more careful from here on out.

You fellows appear to be on the prowl to find targets for your humors.

Blessings....Mary

Actually, Alex, this is not fully historically accurate. You can find evidence of the Vatican's response to St. Gregory Palamas that is quite positive to the point where they condemned one who wrote against St. Gregory and you can find that evidence in Orthodox texts.

Blessings...Mary

Mary,

I doubt that Alex is a shil for anyone.

On the Theosis or Divinization question, which Western authors used the term? Didn't I read someplace that you were seeking to become a hermit? Perhaps I'm mistaken but I thought I read this a few months ago and also recently. If I am correct how is that process going?

Dan Lauffer

Perhaps you can give me more substantive specifics of what you see theosis to be as a cradle eastern Catholic, so that I may take it to the Orthodox and western Catholic monks of my acquaintance and see what they have to say about these so-called differences.

What I find interesting is that Catholic monks, east and west, those not part of the Church of What's Happin' Now, tend to recognize each other spiritually far better than lay folk tend to allow. Of course there are those who would make up differences rather than admit similarities, so I account for them as well.

Are you of the oriental Orthodox churches natally, or from the occidental east?

Mary

Then it would be useful if the baiting and game playing stop. I have done my best to be kind to you fellows but your fangs are showing again and I do not think your tone with me is necessary or fruitful actually.

I have lived the life of the monastic hermit for almost eight years now and only in the past few months have I begun to seek a bishop to receive me in vows. I have the support of several Byzantine Catholic, Orthodox and western monastics and priests who recognize that I have and do live the life. My Skete has been sealed and I have been blessed. It is a good life.

In the end it will be what God wills.

Mary

Mary,

That's interesting. I wonder if your efforts to correct one of our Eastern Bishops has born any fruit. I remember that you reported on that several times the last time you were here.

Dan Lauffer