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Dear Dmitri,

We can venerate any Saint or holy person, canonized or not, before or after 1054!

Leave those icons alone, then, get away from them, Dmitri - sit down for a minute and calm down!

Actually, a saint can be canonized more than once following his repose.

In the Orthodox Church, saints are often canonized first by their local monastery (as Mt. AThos does all the time) or else local bishop.

They can later be canonized as saints for a region or country such as the Belarusian saints canonized for Belarus only (St George Konissky).

Then they can be canonized as national and pan-Orthodox Saints as occurred with the New Martyrs of Rus' in 2000.

And no one is obligated to receive the cult of a saint canonized locally (e.g. Blessed Matrona of Moscow) or regionally or nationally.

When the Pope canonized St Josaphat a saint, his cult was actually limited to the Eastern Catholic Churches alone until 1888 when his cult was extended to the entire Church!

In 1904, Met. Andrew Sheptytsky petitioned Rome to recognize the saints of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Rome did so, dropping only a few who were "violently" anti-Roman, which is the basic principle Rome has always followed when allowing the veneration of Orthodox saints in a Particular Church that comes into union with it.

I think we have a better understanding of history today and even these saints can be "rehabilitated" in my view (St Mark of Ephesus, SOME would say St Photios, St Athanasius of Brest and others).

The fate of Orthodox saints in Eastern Catholic Church calendars has not always been a good one.

The Austro-Hungarian Empire, fearing the threat of the Russian Tsars, actually ordered the Greek CAtholic Metropolitan of L'viv in the latter half of the 19th century to expunge the names of all Orthodox Saints (not canonized by Rome) from its calendars and also to expunge "Orthodox icons" of the Mother of God such as Kazan and even that of Pochaiv!

Patriarch Slipyj, for example, reintroduced the veneration of the Fathers of the Kyivan Caves Lavra in the Ukrainian Catholic calendar and some other Eastern Saints.

Bl. Basil Velichkovsky in his work among parishes in Ukraine that came into union with Rome had them continue in their veneration of all their local Orthodox saints.

But this all varies from Eparchy to Eparchy.

Fr. Serge Keleher named his Toront parish for St Seraphim of Sarov.

Not only did our Ukrainian Catholic priests and faithful, on the whole, wonder about the legitimacy of that, but Orthodox priests as well!

There was a Ukrainian CAtholic priest in the Boston area way back when who wanted to establish a brotherhood named for St Mark of Ephesus . . .

Alex

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Thanks. I feel better now.

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

Good!

Now tell me, what is your latest Orthodox Saint addition to your icon corner?

Has there every been an icon written of Our Lady of Prompt Succour of New Orleans?

Alex

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Well, Alex, you know what they say about us:

"We may not know who we are, but we definitely know who we aren't!"

That used to mean that we knew we weren't Ukies, but unfortunately today that means we know we aren't anything but American. Our liturgical calendar seems to reflect that. I'm surprised even Bl. Teodor and Pavel make the cut, since they didn't speak English. So how could they ever have anything meaningful to say to us?

[ 07-17-2002: Message edited by: Lemko Rusyn ]

Dear Lemko,

Well, this is all a learning experience for me!

I was always aware that to be Ukrainian meant different things to people living in different parts of Ukraine.

For me and for many, Lemkos, Boykos, Hutsuls (Hutsuls were always classified separately from "Ukrainians" up until the 19th century) Bukovinians and others were Ukrainians of vastly different cultural backgrounds, dialects and experiences, apart from the dominating identity of the Galicians.

Even "Ukrainian" once meant someone from eastern Ukraine.

For me as well, this has the potential of developing into a dynamic view of cultural identity where people share an overall and loosely defined national identity (i.e. "Ukrainian") but who live it on the level of their own regional cultural identity with its distinct language and traditions and particular identity.

The more Ukrainian immigrants come here from different parts of Europe and Ukraine, the more I get the sense that we Ukies have been living an illusion with respect to Ukrainian cultural identity.

And I think what Ruthenians and Lemkos and others are reacting to in North America is a particular form of Ukrainian identity, that of Galicia, which though legitimate, cannot claim to be "all Ukrainian that Ukrainian is."

Believe me that offending anyone is the furthest thing from me, but I see Ruthenians and Lemkos and others as distinctive experiences of living the identity of Kyivan Rus'-Ukraine. I think that by studying the history of the Lemkos and the Ruthenians, we can get a more in depth understanding of just how varied and different "Ukrainian identity" and culture really is.

I love my Lemko brothers and sisters, as I do my other Ruthenian brothers and sisters.

You are your own people and yet we are also one people.

Humbly submitted in the love of XPUCTOC

Alex

Slava Jesu Kristu,

Oh yes, I have seen icons of Our Lady of Prompt Succor. Now that it is hurricaine season, we invoke her patronage more than usual. My latest icon requisition has been a copy of what we would call "Our Lady of Mt. Athos". It depicts the Bl. Mother over the Holy Mountain dressed as an Othodox Mother Superior with Mantle, etc. I find it very uplifting. It helps me to deal with the fact that Catholics are not well liked on the Holy Mountain or so I have heard.

Dmitri.

Dear Dmitri,

I would be so indebted to you if you could let me know where I could buy a copy of the icon of Our Lady of Prompt Succor!

Please answer as promptly as you can!

Alex

That is true, Dmitri. When Patriarch Athenogoras and Pope Paul VI mutually dropped the anathemas of 1054 back in 1965, several of the monasteries on Mount Athos stopped commemorating the Patriarch and flew black skull-and crossbones flags with "Orthodoxy or Death" on them in Greek.

Alex, great synopsis of an incredibly complex sociological mileu. We have a larger Kyivan Rus' identity but also a sub-culture or more particular identity of Lemkivshchina, Boyko, Hutsul, Bukovinian, Donbas, whatever influenced by linguistic, historical and other more local circumstances. Us prairie people sure ain't like them New York City or West Coast slickers.

Dear Diak,

Although I may sound like a city slicker, I spent half my life on my father's bee farm.

As a matter of fact, my name "Alex" comes from the fact that I was born on the "Navecheriya" of the feast of St Alexios the Man of God or, as they say in Ukraine, "Warm Alex."

(I'm very warm blooded, to be sure . . .).

March 30th is the day that Ukrainian beekeepers had priests bless their hives and their special shrines placed among the hives with little icons of St John the Baptist and Sts. Savvaty and Zossima Solovetsky, the patrons of the bees in Ukraine and Russia. (Ivan Franko wrote a poem about this tradition).

There are four blessings associated with beekeeping in our Slavonic trebnyk, as you know.

It is interesting that while, in Ukrainian, animals "zdykhayut" and people "umirayut" ("die" in both cases), bees are often said to "umirayut" like people.

There is a beautiful Ukrainian story about a honeybee that was on the Cross of our Lord.

It came to an awareness that something terribly wrong was happening and it stung the soldier who was about to pierce Christ's side.

The soldier killed the bee by stomping on it.

The story continues with the myrrh-bearers rushing from the empty Tomb of Christ, having seen their Risen Lord.

"Did you see that beautiful brooch our Lord wore in the middle of His Chest?" one of them said.

"That was no brooch," another replied. "That was a honeybee!"

Whenever I read that story, I never fail to shed copious tears!

It's the Ukrainian in me . . .

Alex

Slava Jesu Kristu,

I may have spoke somewhat primaturely. The image most know as Our Lady of Prompt Succour is a staue showing Mary and the Chrsit child with large crowns. However, the famous icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help is also known as Our Lady of Perpetual Succour. So, at least from what I have seen, both images are used. Although some Marian purist may be disturbed, it works for me.

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

Gotcha, Big Guy!

It's O.K. I went to the Ursuline Academy in N'Awlins last time I was there and got myself a statue.

Alex

Dimitri,
What language is this? It's not any I recognize...

Dear Lemko,

It's either one of those other dialects of Ukraine or else a conflagration of Ukrainian and Latin.

This must mean that Dmitri is of Kozak ancestry!

Alex

Dear Orthodox Catholic:

Bl. Gabra Michael was a Latin, not Eastern Rite. He was converted by St. Justin Jacobis, and like him a Vincentian (Fathers of the Mission). Some do have Maronite parishes, I think one in upstate NY.

Well, it is a little of both apparently. Actually, I thought it was phonetic lower Ukrainian. This is one of the reasons I don't like to spell Cyrilic languages using Latin letters. I always manage to get it wrong. In fact, canting Ruthenian prayers in Cyrillic is easier for me than the Latin texts we have now.
Oy-vey smir!

Dmitri