www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology How to change the rite?

Christ is risen! Dear sisters and brothers! I am the new on this Forum and I am happy that I have found it! I am a RC priest and I was ordained in 1993. More and more I observe how our Liturgy goes towards Protestants. There are eliminated processions and traditional beatiful songs . Now we have the masses by the guitars playing and what there is singing in the churches, that is more like in a disco. I wanted celebrate the Tridentine Mass, but our bishops are prejudiced against them. I thought about joining to the Fraternity of St. Pius X, but it is very difficult to me living in disorder with the official Church. Hence I know the eastern Rite and I very appreciate it, I would change my Latin Rite into Greek. But I don\t know if it is possible, so much that I am priest. I would be thankful for any advise in this case.A! I live and work in Poland. Please, give me some advice, beacause our Liturgy is already protestant and I feel myself very badly in my Church. Sometimes I think about accepting Orthodoxy......

Welcome to the Byzantine Forum.

WE ARE VERY GLAD YOU ARE HERE

I can't give you the information you are looking for but hang on the answer grapes will be along soon.

My husband is of Polish heritage, was raised Polish National Catholic, but his few years in the Church were in the Roman Catholic Church. However after we were married we searched for a home, God is so faithful. I was raised Southern Baptist and we came into the Ruthenian Church 25 years ago, and have never looked back. Stan is now a deacon in the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church, though he is serving in a wonderful Melkite parrish.

God has given you a burden, Rev. 19 tells us Jesus name is Faithful and True. So he will complete the work/desire he has begun in you. Be at peace.

Pani Rose

Shlomo Abun Adelphos (Peace to you Fr. Adelphos in Aramaic),

Here are Eastern Catholic Churches in Poland that you can contact:

Ukrainian Catholic Archediocese of Warsaw-Przemyśl [archidiecezja-gr.opoka.org.pl]

Ukrainian Diocese of Wrocław-Gdańsk [wroc-gda.opoka.org.pl]

I hope these help you.

Poosh BaShlomo (Stay in Peace),

Yuhannon

There are also a couple of Tridentine organizations which have good relationships with Rome. The Priestly Society of St. Peter, and the Institute of Christ the King (assuming I have the names right). The St. Peter group (Latin initials: FSSP)has a seminary in Germany. I think the Christ the King folks are originally from Italy. Both groups are also in the U.S. I don't know if either group interests you, but you did mention a preference for the Tridentine, and might want to look into this.

Father, you should realize there are fundamental differences of approach in spirituality, theology and liturgy between the Byzantine and the Roman. Certainly, the core elements of the faith as handed down from the Fathers are complimentary. But the praxis is quite different.

It is not simply a matter of saying another "Mass", and one should very much study the matter before making such a deliberate and serious decision.

As you know, and is evident from your reverent understanding of the Mass, he who stands at the Altar and offers the Sacrifice must have a proper understanding and disposition before taking on such a grave responsibility. May the Holy Spirit guide you, and you can indeed be orthodox and remain in communion with the Church of Rome.

Canonically speaking for a transfer, you will first need a release from your current bishop, and then acceptance from the bishop of the church sui iuris you are transferring to.

If you are looking for biritual faculties, you can do that without a transfer, but will need permission of your bishop as well as faculties granted from the Byzantine or whatever church you are asking faculties from.

Christos Voskrese!

Dear Father:

1. If you're a priest, as a priest you can't do anything in order to make the liturgy of your church better? Like not allowing guitars, female readers and all this protestantizing tendence when you celebrate mass?

2. Is it possible for you to tell your Bishops that it's your wish to stop celebrating mass in the new rite and open an old-rite parish? I bet there are many people who are also disgusted with the liturgical decadence.

About the changing of rite, are you truly identified with the Ukrainian-Byzantine Rite so much that you want to become part of that Church?
Or is it just because the liturgy there is more conservative?

If the problem is the hierarchy, I believe that the problem will not be solved. I say this because I've known of laymen and priests who have traditional-leanings and have switched rite for this reason and actualy find out that their new church is also becoming liberal-minded, accepting liturgical changes (mixing modern-latin usages with byzantine ones) and eventualy end up at the ROCOR (if they remain easterm) or the SSPX.

Dear Father,
Welcome to the Forum!
I COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from Father. I am currently attempting a transfer from diocesan seminary to the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter in the USA because I can't calm my conscience down. Even when a priest is made pastor after six years or so, there is only so much that can be done. (For instance, You can't have modernistic buildings with no foundation in Catholic architectural tradition torn down.)

Father I would suggest researching the traditional groups AND getting in touch with the Eastern Churches. Take your time! Don't be in a rush! As Diak pointed out, the East is very special. Don't be in a rush to go Eastern because of Liturgical Abuse. That would be an abuse in itself.

The Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter is in Poland! Make sure you check them out! http://www.fssp.org/antiquusordo/start.htm

Please write me if you need help. I am in contact with the FSSP!

Yours truly in the Risen Christ,
Usque.

In Orthodox churches the priests who serve initiate changes in decor AND practice. For instance, even in a modern Catholic Church, the priest could start a campaign with a few sympathetic parishioners for the buying of statuary and/or iconography. If the trend is towards more beautiful sanctuaries, he shouldn't have a problem doing this. Surely some beautiful icons which are also used in the West, such as Our Lady of Perpetual Help, could add beauty to the walls...and what about adding images of the Stations of the Cross, which I have seen in many RC churches, and is a traditional RC devotion?

In many Orthodox parishes that I have been in over the years, even the more architecturally modern ones that were intended to be somewhat bare, such campaigns were initiated and the decoration of iconography was added. It is not a difficult task to beautify a space...all it takes is will, initiative, and money!

The same initiatives are also taken by incoming priests in Greek Orthodox churches for services...ie: choice of language, placing of sermon, types of sermons (children's and adult or just adult), readers, chanters, participation or lack of participation of Sunday School children and the timing of it, special services like supplications and vespers, use of prostrations or no prostrations in certain contexts, etc., etc., etc.....

It is easy to recognize a more traditional priest and a less traditional priest just by attending a Sunday Morning Liturgy....

I really do think that parish priests are the keys to bringing the Latin rite Mass back to its proper dignified place in the RC church, if that is what that particular priest wants. (The only guitar playing and less traditional Mass that I have personally witnessed, was for the teenage girls at my daughter's RC school, and in that setting, it seemed appropriate and actually, quite nice for their age)..

Couldn't a priest have only ONE Mass like this for those who still want it, and the rest tradtional? Isn't it up to the priest in the RC Church as leader of the parish to initiate subtle changes?

In the risen Lord,
Alice, who begs forgiveness for her inquisiteveness

P.S. WELCOME good Father to our forum!

Adelphos,

Father, there is nothing I can add that has not been shared by those who posted before I read this thread except to add my welcome to you along with the others.

You are on the right forum. There is much to be gleamed here. Seek and you will find. Listen and you will hear what you need to know. The Spirit is working.

I have been here a year now and learn something new almost each time I log in. There are those, she says smiling, who might not believe it, but I spend more time reading the posts than posting.

God Bless you and today you are in my prayers.

Again, welcome aboard.

In Christ and the Theotokos,

Porter...<><

Hello Fr., my I offer a humble advice?

Please do NOT run away from problems? How will the problems in the Roman Church be solved if good holy priests like yourself run away to join other Churches?

You MUST stay there. Like Alice said, VERY slowly bring back traditions, etc. to the Church.

Perhaps you can preach from the pulpit about the love of G-d in the beauty of Church and Liturgy.

Perhaps find some people in the Church who LOVES the beauty of G-d's house and Liturgy. Talk with them, maybe start a prayer group, support group, etc.

Talk about the GOSPEL, especially of Life. Study Theology of the Body, which I believe would lead people to appreciation of themselves, their Church, their faith which might lead to better Church.

Get people on FIRE for G-d, for the Gospel! That, itself, will lead to better Church, more reverence.

It all starts with the Shepherd of the parish, which is YOU. Lead your flock (parish) to Christ. Ask Mary the Theotokos for help and guidance in that (since she's an expert in leading people to Christ).

Perhaps offer spiritual retreats, a day retreat or weekly Bible studies, etc.

The fire must be sparked and grow inside of people. Then you will find peace in your parish.

May G-d bless you and watch over you.


SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Dearest sisters and brothers in our Lord.Thank you so much for your messages. THey helped to my troubled heart.I have thought over what you have written about and decided to stay in my Church. I love my Church, although the Eastern rite bewitches my soul with it's beauty...But I was grown up in the Latin rite and who knows if I find my home even serving in honourable Byzantine rite. I am a little disapointed with the changes wich occur the RC Church nowadays, but maybe it,s the time of proof...?Above all I want to trust the rulers of the Church and specially the new Pope.
I am very surprised that so many of yours would answer to my doubtsand in this way you helped me to quiet my mind and heart. Yesterday I confessed all these doubts to the spiritual father. He convinced me not to worry so much, because the Christ is who has grounded the Church- not me!I am sure he was right. Thank you all for so warmly accepting me on this wonderful Forum. God bless you all.
Christ is risen.
Adelphos.

You guys in America and Europe are more lucky than me in HK. We do not have Eastern Catholic churches here and every Sunday I have to go to an Orthodox Church for divine liturgy and then rush to a Catholic church for mass.

Excuse me if I ask what is missing from the Orthodox Divine Liturgy that one has to run to an RC church for mass afterwards?

Reminds me of the time my wife and I invited a Roman Catholic couple to attend Sunday Liturgy at our Ukrainian Catholic parish. When we exited the church after Liturgy, he had a zillion good questions about the experience, but she kept reminding him that they had to leave in order to attend Mass at their parish church. My wife and I were dumbfounded by her behavior - she didn't understand that she had already attended "Mass" and her Sunday obligation had been fulfilled.
Also, bumping into two Roman Rite nuns at a restaurant while traveling and exchanging facts about ourselves. One of the sisters had been professed for 45 years and vaguely remembered attended an Eastern Catholic Liturgy many years back. Here she'd been a nun all those years and knew almost nothing about the Eastern Church. How sad!