www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Please tell me this isn't part of Byzantine chant now!!

A number of years ago I went to photograph the interior of one of our churches in Pittsburgh. I was with the cerkovnyk (sexton) but the pastor happened to be there. The pastor proceeded to chew me out, accusing me of, of all things, stealing the Glory & Praise books that had been in every pew until a week or two before. I had never even been inside that church before... the immediate-previous administrator (a bi-ritual RC religious order priest) had introduced the G&P hymns and God knows what else...

Steal the G&P books? I didn't do it, but the thought of it, heck, I'll wear that accusation as a badge of honor!

Dear Diak:

I think Prof. Andrushko would personally beat us with his cane and he and Chrystyna would cheerfully throw us from the choir loft. OUCH!

Seriously, however, one thing the concerns me is that more and more people are taking liberties during the "vyvid" after Marriage ceremonies.

Schubert's Ave Maria (sometimes accompanied, sometimes not, and once with just an organ ) is popular.

The other day we were doing a wedding ceremony and the soloist came in and (accompanied by a cello ) did the "Ave Maria" from one of the Verdi operas (can't remember which one - darn scleroza).

I've also attended a crowning ceremony where, after the betrothal in the back, the couple come down the aisle not to the 127th Psalm, but to, you guessed it, Wagner (albeit unaccompanied choir - but still).

Now, don't get me wrong. I love opera. I subscribe to the Lyric and all that. But in Church, and a Byzantine Rite one at that? No thanks!

Yours,

kl

"On Eagle's Wings" and "Be Not Afraid" are sung well by the parish we attend here in Southern Oregon. In fact, I have many memories of watching people line up for Communion and them singing these songs.

I think the real problem many have with these songs is that they represent (for them) the worst parts of the reform in the Roman Rite. It doesn't need to.

I don't want to belabor the point as this is not the place for it. However, I feel strongly that being Eastern Catholic does not mean being anti-Roman. Singing "Be Not Afraid" in a Roman parish is not a "let's all pretend we're God" hymn.

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Well, DT, I'm a proud Roman/Latin Catholic, and yes, "Be Not Afraid", is too a "let's pretend we're God" song. It is an "I" song, and the "I" is God.

But you and I are NOT God, and to sing these words, "Be not afraid, I go before you always - come follow me, and I will give you love," seems, at best, rather presumptious!

That's assuming the worst for those who sing the song.

I can't agree that's was ever anyone's intent.

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

A wise author about 40 years ago pointed out that in certain types of churches, one can determine in advance which hymns will be popular. One does this by counting the number of times that first-person-singular words and references occur. Try this on that old favorite "In the Garden" - if you repeat the chorus twice after each verse, which is common, you get to use the first-person pronouns 27 times in the course of one hymn. No wonder people enjoy it! But does this involve worshipping God, or worshipping myself? Incognitus

From "Why Catholics Can't Sing":

Thank you for putting this avatar on your screen, Theist Gal!

You're welcome! But it's just temporary till I get my Stooges back from the "Excessive Bandwidth Toll House"!

Church music has an interesting history. Many tunes for popular hymns a few hundred years ago were borrowed from other sources. Some were from tunes you could hear at the local pub. Christianity has had a long history of baptizing popular culture (for example: traditions used in celebrating Christmas).

David Ignatius (who can't buy the idea that people who sing "Be Not Afraid" or "On Eagle's Wings" are pretending they are God or are focusing on themselves instead of God when they sing) DTBrown@aol.com

A few months back I was at an Orthodox church (jurisdiction withheld) where they sang the hymn Here I Am Lord (the one that starts "I the Lord of sea and sky...") during Communion, with organ accompaniment. I don't think it is my place, though, to comment on the correctness of other parish's practices.

What does everyone think of setting orthodox hymns to non-orthodox melodies? (Izhe Cheruvimy to the melody of Nearer my God to Thee, for example.) There would seem to be historical precident for taking popular "heretical" hymns and putting orthodox words to them (I believe Auxentius of Bythinia and Ephrem the Syrian did this.)

Dave

Dave,

On a personal level I like it, it seems, however that there is a problem with it. I have a Czech Orthodox prayerbook that has the same hymn in it in Czech.

Tony

If I may say and without criticism merely observatoin, the title of this thread seems misleading. Ruthenian BCs sing Carpatho-Russian music/chant, not "Byzantine."

I think that the term "Byzantine Chant" is properly applied to what is normatively sung in Greek and Antiochian churches, for example.

Tony

I have a Russian Catholic friend who thinks that the style of music traditionally done in Ruthenian Churches is too folksy...the word he used was "schmaltzy." The music used in the OCA is more "majestic," in his opinion. I like the music I've heard in the OCA but Ruthenian style chant in English is still my favorite...whether or not it's too "folksy" or not.

If you want some different music try visiting a Coptic parish someday. It's a bit of a shock for Americans but I grew to love it. You gotta like incense, however!

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Thank you!!! A bit of confusion cleared up for me. The Melkite chant that I love so much is the twin of the Antiochians'. I have noticed that Slavic chant is very different.